Engine/gearbox cross angle??

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Your reasoning for having the transfer case shaft and hence crankshaft parallel to the pinion shafts is quite correct, although I don't think I would be too worried about the 1 degree - if you think about it, the angular relationship will change as the vehicle is loaded, since most of the load is on the rear axle, so that unloaded the transfer case shaft will be down at the front, and fully loaded perhaps a little down at the back.

But the other thing to look at, as a possible reason for the front up tilt of the Holden engine, is the clearance from the front diff to sump or front pulley with maximum spring deflection. Although if this is a problem, I would consider a spacer under the spring stops might be a better solution.

John

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Thanks John,

I'm very relieved to hear you confirm we're on the right track.:BigThumb:

Decent info on this stuff seems to be a bit hard to find, unless you're prepared have a fair sort of a dig for it.

We looked at the axle to sump clearance right at the start, and it'll never be a problem, that said, the original Land Rover engine would have probably sat about where the 202 is sitting now I reckon.

It seems that when we sat the eng/trans in as straight and level as we did, with just a very minute backward slope, everything else just fell into place and lined up perfectly, like it was just "meant to be" that way.

But then something kept bugging me about that mile high slant the engine was sitting at previously, and it's kind of had me worried, like maybe I was overlooking something.

Tonight we quickly checked the front diff flange angle with a degree gauge, and it's sitting at 89.5 degrees (right angle to the ground), which is precisely the angle the most recent literature I've found (only found it tonight) has made mention of.

The plan is to now check the rear diff in the same fashion, and if my suspicions are correct, that will also be found to be sitting at 89.5 degrees.

If both the diffs are already set at those angles, then again everything falls into place, as it means we just have to set the transfer box flanges at 90 degrees, and we should be in business.

The 89.5 degree angles on the diffs is to account for the under load axle wrap, according to the literature.

Once at cruise speed, the axle wrap will take up the .5 degree, and the diffs will then be running at the correct 90 degrees, if what I'm reading is correct, and I must say, it all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I'm starting to think that whoever did the engine conversion, may have gotten confused and pointed the transfer box flange directly at the rear diff flange, making a single bend in the driveshaft at the diff flange, as opposed to having 2 bends of equal pitch.

Nothing else seems to make sense, but having said that, I never had any vibration to speak of, even at the highest of speeds, so yeah, that part still has me confused.

Anyway, we'd already decided to just keep going the way we're going, and just see how it all pans out.

Thanks again John, I appreciate your advice.

Ok, the engine has now been installed for the final time.

The figures and angles have all fallen right into place, thus I'm quite relieved.:p

The following figures are pretty accurate, but right at this point in time, they're just coming off the top of my head, so I'll have to return here with the exact figures at a later point, but I'll give these ones now, just to show what this modification has done for my Holden red 202 powered Series 3 ex army 109.

Front diff flange is set as per standard (Rover), @ 385mm from the ground(army spec?), and has a preset angle of 89.5 degrees.

Rear diff flange is set as per standard (Salisbury) @ 355mm from the ground (army spec?) and has a preset angle of 89 degrees.

Transfer box flanges are:

Front @ 510mm from the ground @ 90 degrees.

Rear @ 505mm from the ground @ 90 degrees.

This combination sees both the drive-shafts running at 10 degrees each.

To reach this result, the front of the Holden 202 was lowered by approximately 6.5 inches from where it was sitting previously.

I'll have to re-check the figures again after the vehicle is weighted down, just to ensure they're all still where we set them, and at that time, I shall return to this thread and present a final series of more exact figures.

The only thing which needs to be modified on the actual engine when doing this modification, is the carburetor operating angle.

My 34 ADM Weber carby is now leaning forward @ 5 degrees, and so to fix this, I now have to have one of the adaptor plates machined to suit that angle, which will in turn bring the carby back to it's proper operating angle(level).

*1st image shows the way the engine was positioned previously.

*2nd image shows the new engine position.

Look for where the harmonic balancer or water pump pulley sits in each image, in order to get an idea of just how much lower the engine is now sitting.

Looking at the pictures I can see another possible reason for the angle - did the original installation use the Holden fan? Your second picture shows that this would be pretty low relative to the radiator - I presume you plan to use an electric fan?

John

Looking into the hole in the second pics that's pretty much spot on from what remember, just up and right. That cross members been cut way too low though. Never had to cut into the hole to get the radiator in.

Watch the 34ADM Webber in heat in the falcon they were fine, I had one in a Nissan G60 and found that when things got really hot it wouldnt run properly.
The problem seemed unsolvable but it faulted when on the dyno as I was standing next to it.
A plume of Petrol you would not believe shot about a metre in the air.
After a lot of research it was found that it was to do the the bowl venting.
Put simply vent the bowl and you wont have any issues.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Looking at the pictures I can see another possible reason for the angle - did the original installation use the Holden fan? Your second picture shows that this would be pretty low relative to the radiator - I presume you plan to use an electric fan?

John

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Hi John,

Yes, it was running a standard 4 blade Holden fan previously.

It appeared someone had bent the blades back a bit in order for it to clear the radiator at the bottom. It was obviously well clear at the top.

It also had a big thermo mounted ahead of the radiator, which may have been added as a backup.

I have used the thermo in the past, so I know it's ok, and I will now be using it as my primary.

Not ideal, but you do what you have to do.

My preference is a clutch fan, but there just wasn't enough room to fit one before, and now, forget it, nothing will fit now.

I even went about sourcing a heavy duty 8 blade steel fan a couple of years ago but it also wouldn't fit. I have a few different spacers of varying thickness on hand, but all proved to be useless.

I hung onto that 8 blade fan as I was hoping to use it at some point, but alas, it just wasn't meant to be.

The clearances are quite tight up the front, and the situation is now such that the water pump pulley bolt heads are spinning about 10-15mm or so off the radiator.

We'll be making up a suitably robust damper rod to ensure the engine never pitches forward more then a couple of millimetres.

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Originally Posted by clubagreenie

Looking into the hole in the second pics that's pretty much spot on from what remember, just up and right. That cross members been cut way too low though. Never had to cut into the hole to get the radiator in.

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Hi clubgreenie,

Not sure what size radiator you were running, but mine is a 4x core, and it takes up pretty much all the space between the steering relay and the left chassis rail.

Even after taking a smidge out of the steering relay gusset (and re-strengthened that of course), there's only just enough room to jam it in with force.

We're now looking to slice the sides of the radiator down, just so I can add some thin rubber underneath and ahead of the lower tank, to help reduce the risk of a metal to metal wear problem later on.

The cross-member isn't cut too low for this radiator mate, that's exactly how far the radiator sat down below the cross-member before, and it's all the way to the top as well.

I checked it all fairly carefully, and there was just no other way to do it. It was either do this, or get a new radiator custom made.

Couldn't push the radiator any further forward, as the thermo fan to grill clearance is super tight too.

We've gone to all this trouble in order to retain the standard appearance of the vehicle.

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Originally Posted by djam1

Watch the 34ADM Webber in heat in the falcon they were fine, I had one in a Nissan G60 and found that when things got really hot it wouldnt run properly.
The problem seemed unsolvable but it faulted when on the dyno as I was standing next to it.
A plume of Petrol you would not believe shot about a metre in the air.
After a lot of research it was found that it was to do the the bowl venting.
Put simply vent the bowl and you wont have any issues.

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Hi djam1,

This 34 ADM has been on the vehicle for a couple of years now, and it's never missed a beat.

It's not a tired oldie that's been sourced from a wrecking yard, it's been fully blueprinted to my own specifications.

I also run a modified Redline Roadmaster manifold, which has a water tank welded on beneath the plenum floor.

I've tried a few different combinations with the plenum chamber volume so far, and it seems to like 1x phenolic spacer directly atop the manifold, followed by 1x spacer with PCV inlet, and then 1x plain spacer atop that (which is now being machined to act as a 5 degree "wedge").

Those spacers are all opened up too, no venturi extension, it just doesn't need it. It's simply doing what a tunnel ram does now.

There's also a single shooter water/methanol injector atop the primary venturi as well. The mechanical secondary is all fuel. Oh yeah, I have a bunch of different jets too, and I can't remember which ones are in there at the moment, but suffice to say, they were fairly decent sizes. All that will have to be re-done now, to suit the different engine specs.

Actually, that just reminded me, I need to scratch around and find my jets. Hope I haven't lost them.:(

I use a Bosch HEI with a Crane Cams HI6 CDI and PS91 coil, and ICE IGN leads as my standard ignition, combined with Brisk Premium LGS spark plugs, or when I'm running my custom ignition, I still use that other ignition, but it only acts as the trigger then, and when doing that, I run custom made plugs. Those are designed and built by myself and a friend.

Not sure how well versed you are with engines etc, but if you simply switch to HEI, and run those Brisk plugs, your combustion chamber temperatures will decrease by about 100-150 degrees. I'm serious. I've measured it.

That sort of efficiency increase will in turn make your engine run cooler.

Just the way it is.

I've never had a heat problem with this carby, or this engine for that matter, even on the worst of the scorchers in Melbourne City itself, in bumper to bumper traffic, it just purrs.

Who tuned yours?

I do all my own tuning, and while I used to mess around with it fairly often, I just couldn't be bothered these days. It's quick enough as it is.

**Attached image shows the spacers in the wrong order, as I was simply test fitting it to the engine to check on some clearances.

We never had issues running the same carb for years. Went to it when we found boxes of them new at a local parts shop and bought the box for $100- (a dozen I think).

The rad we used was std just had the top inlet moved to the centre.

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Originally Posted by clubagreenie

We never had issues running the same carb for years. Went to it when we found boxes of them new at a local parts shop and bought the box for $100- (a dozen I think).

The rad we used was std just had the top inlet moved to the centre.

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Wow, that was a very good score with the dozen ADM's. Bet you're still grinning over that one.

My radiator is an unknown variety, may be custom made, not sure.

It's a 4x core, bottom hose is beside the steering relay and the top one is over on the passenger side. The inlet/outlet may have been moved, not sure, but will look more closely when the time comes (soon now), when it get's worked over prior to its re-installation.

Got a fair bit more done today, rebuilt the dash and did most of the wiring.

Still have a bit more wiring to do yet, as well as the myriad other stuff.

I'm totally exhausted, just doing far too many hours on this rebuild, but I just can't refit anything before going right over it.