Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 99

Thread: S1 Holden 186 smoke issues

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Westlake ,brisbane
    Posts
    3,922
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Joe , Even though you have good compression , that only says the compression rings are sealing but the bore could be glazed & the oil rings could be stuck in the ring groves . As for the rear vision mirror S1's never had a internal rear vision mirror so what you have done should be OK if you can see out of it.

  2. #12
    Homestar's Avatar
    Homestar is offline Super Moderator & CA manager Gold Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sunbury, VIC
    Posts
    20,055
    Total Downloaded
    0

    S1 Holden 186 smoke issues

    Pushrods are hollow and they allow oil up to the rockers. If the are blocked then you’ll need to clean them out or find replacements. While it doesn’t really matter which way around they go it is always better to put them back the same way you removed them and in the same hole they cane out of as the wear on them, the rockets and lifters will all match. Mixing and matching these is not recommend if you can help it.

    I’d clean all the crud you can off everything - the point made about the oils rings is valid - with that much crud around the top end I’d be guessing the oil rings could be stuck.

    In for a penny so they say - you up for whipping the sump off and knocking the pistons out? If there’s a large lip in the bore they this can cause issues getting them out and generally you’d need to cut the lip off with a lip cutter before removing them.

    If you do that, you could carefully remove the rings, clean everything and reassemble. A quick hone while the pistons are out would be worth it too.

    Oh and don’t stress about the size of the hole on the block with that corrosion - it will be fine. Might pay to flush the coolant system when you’re done and treat it to some new coolant to stop it going any further.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

  3. #13
    JDNSW's Avatar
    JDNSW is offline RoverLord Silver Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Central West NSW
    Posts
    28,806
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Bit hard to be sure from the picture, but those plugs look oily to me rather than sooty!
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Westlake ,brisbane
    Posts
    3,922
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Joe, I thought of one other thing that could cause oil getting into cylinders & that is the PCV valve. It should rattle when you shake it , if it doesn't rattle it could be stuck open allowing the manifold vacuum to suck oil out of the rocker cover , but I think Homestar could be rite & you need to take the pistons out & check the rings. Don't get the pistons mixed up they will need to go back in the same cylinders also bearing caps on same con rods. It is hard to tell by the photo but it does not look like there is much lip in the bore

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northern Beaches Sydney NSW
    Posts
    1,137
    Total Downloaded
    0

    my thoughts

    compression is great but the oil is not so how is the oil getting across all the bores - if it was a broken ring then only one bore would have oil whereas my opinion is all of the bores seem oily as were all of the spark plugs indicating to me something else is at play here - unless all rings are stuck sticky - can you really have good compression but bad oil rings??? wouldn't the compression rings and oil rings deteriorate at a similar rate, don't understand why the compression rings are good to excellent but poor oil rings.

    my other thought was to hone from the top as is, but that would cause a lip unable to go all the way down in current state.

    then thought to just do the head for now and re assess when back together and drop the sump later to do the rings if head doesn't work...

    I have ordered the tool needed to compress the valve spring to dismantle to assess what's happening there. while i wait for that i will continue to clean everything up. I did place the push rods in my cordless drill and spin with a light application of sand paper (prob shouldn't have) but it cleaned up - hoping no tight tolerances for the push rods.

    as for the coolant it was has been all new and yes did flush out as much as i could previously.
    as for the pcv valve that was all new as well but will shake to see...

    really hoping its more a valve stem seal problem more then anything else and not having to remove the bottom end but will wait till I pull out the valve to reassess and share the pics.

    re the internal mirror will make up something more suitable and nicer looking - no wonder i could not find any internal mirrors for S1

    I did make some progress yest on more cleaning up for now.

    I wouldn't mind using again the oil additives that help stop the smoking but i cant drive on the roads legally unreg to place the motor under load - if i was on a farm yes i would, so will see how that goes. thanks as always to sharing this journey and suggestions with me.
    Land Rover

  6. #16
    Homestar's Avatar
    Homestar is offline Super Moderator & CA manager Gold Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sunbury, VIC
    Posts
    20,055
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Pistons need to come out the top of the engine so you'll need the head off if you go back and do this. Regarding the rings - they may not be completely worn, and the compression shows this, but the oil control rings work differently to the compression rings and based on the amount of carbon in the engine I would bet the oil rings are bound up in the spacer and not controlling the oil like they should - once oil gets past them, your compression rings can be new but you'll still have a smoking issue.

    I understand you only want to be doing as little as possible, but if you go to all the trouble of putting new valve stem seals on the head and putting it back together and you still have an issue, the head has to come back off to do the next bit - I'd be dropping the sump and popping one piston out to check - that will soon show you if you need to do them all - you're more than 50% of the way there with the head off - the bottom end isn't hard to do - the sump refit is probably the worst bit.

    Oh, when you were talking about the timing belt - these run timing gears behind the front housing. Likely to be an original fibre gear on the camshaft which can strip and leave you stopped somewhere - but your call on it you change that now or later. The valves don't interfere with the pistons on these engines so it won't internally damage the engine and you can fit a new cam gear by pulling the front cover off - you'd probably need to remove the rad for working room too, but I would leave this job until it's required.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Westlake ,brisbane
    Posts
    3,922
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Joe, the fact there is so much oil in the cylinders would have given you a false reading same as doing a wet test. Homestar is rite the oil rings will be at fault , you will need to replace all the rings , oil & compression & give the the bore a hone to deglaze it as well as replacing the valve stem seals. You may also need to replace the big end bearings if worn. Also if the big end bearings are worn & need replacing so too will the mains.
    If you only do half a job it will come back to bite you. I know you have already had the timing cover of from your previous posts in the S1 section. Have you bought a Holden workshop manual yet you will need it now to explain how to adjust the valve clearances if not done correctly you can bend pushrods .
    This photo is from his previous thread IMG_5047 (1).jpg so already has Alloy timing gear.
    You don't know what has happened with this engine before , it could have overheated at some stage causing the rings to have lost there tension , I remember from your other thread the amount of rust & scale that came out of the block on the countless flushes you did.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    batemans bay NSW
    Posts
    75
    Total Downloaded
    0
    From the pictures, that motor has been neglected, ie looong time between oil changes. This can cause the oil control rings to stick in the grooves, letting a lot of oil past. There are a variety of bush fixes for this. One involves carefully streaming brake fluid into the carburettor while the engine is running. Be prepared for a LOT of smoke. Could try engine flush, and a few quick oil changes. I am sure that fellow Landies will come up with more fixes.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northern Beaches Sydney NSW
    Posts
    1,137
    Total Downloaded
    0

    update

    Really did not want to change rings but if the overall consensus is that i should then will progress with caution - I have been mechanically stretched thus far and never in a millions years did i think i could change rings so bare with me as i ask questions moving fwd. rings appear to be cheap enough to buy, but will need to buy honing bits etc. just do not want to stuff up anything in the reinstallment.
    4 deliveries today and one pick up from couriers so its been busy as but managed some work...

    1. my mirrors came in today so couldn't wait to fit - didn't want to fit on the mudguards and drill out holes so fitted where the top of the door frames attach to as the next best option with no drilled holes. washdeers removed from the mirrors and they fit tightly

    2. previously in the week bought some new LED which is not in keeping with a series LR and not original but gave it some character which I liked, not wired in but like the look of them. fitted.

    3. push rods gave them another good clean, managed to open up 4 which were blocked up so they have been put away for when needed. I will blow some air through them as well to ensure no other debris is inside, they look very clean inside though as is. i think the rubbish build up was at the tips of the rods. Last pic is a comparison of the push rods before and after.

    cheers all and thx for suggestions - Wayne no I have not yet purchased a holden manual.

    I did find a suitable nut for the two snapped bolts and welded one of them twice but when i turned the nut to undo the snapped bolt the weld gave way instead - not sure why, filled the nut head with weld so ....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by shamirj; 4th February 2021 at 02:36 PM. Reason: update
    Land Rover

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Bittern Vic
    Posts
    516
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Back in the bad old days when Holden 6's were very popular, i would always do two oil changes with 3000 Kms between them using 20/50 oil. If the engine still had excessive oil consumption i would swap over to a 50 w oil .
    If 50 w oil wont help you will need a rebuild.

    We also used GM head stud sealer on the bolts to stop water leaks , now days i would use permatex no 3 coz i dont have access to the GM sealer.

    The small holes in the head gasket are corrct and are to reduce water flow around the bores.

    If the push rods were gummed up , you will probably find the lifters are gummed up as well. They are cleanable but it is time consuming, i dont know what new lifters would cost nowadays.

    Once you get it running take it for a long drive and get the engine hot and hopefully under load. ie up a big hill. This should help burn out some of gunk built up and seal the rings up.

    Good luck

    Ian
    Bittern

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search AULRO.com ONLY!
Search All the Web!