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Thread: S1 Holden 186 smoke issues

  1. #1
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    S1 Holden 186 smoke issues

    Having almost completed my rebuild on the S1 with holden 186 - it seems to be smoking alot, so after trying an oil additive 'stop smoke' then a valve oil conditioner with no luck my theory is as follows (but i am no mechanic)...

    oil is getting into the chamber from either the rings or the valves? which is causing the oil to burn producing smoke - btw it smokes during cold and when warm, colour is somewhere between blue and white but NOT black smoke.

    guessing it maybe the valves, began dismantling the head only to stop so that i can do a compression test (wet and dry) and will post up results here once my ebay purchases arrive (comp pressure tester gauge)

    then will prob change the valve stem seals, clean up and lap the valves and assess any damages.

    my other concern is if the rings are stuffed, how to test ? can i pour fuel onto the top of the pistons and leave o/night and if that goes down its a sign of poor rings - would this be a good idea or not please. hoping its just the head valves with poor stem seals. visually can inspect the bore for the pistons but that wont tell me if the rings are any good. help
    Land Rover

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    JDNSW's Avatar
    JDNSW is offline RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    If the issue is valve stem seals, you will find that the smoke is greatest when opening the throttle after idling for a few minutes, but it will decrease when running under load, where if it is rings, expect the smoke to increase with full throttle under load. Of course, it may be both. And check spark plugs for signs of oiling - if one plug is oily, it is likely to be rings on that cylinder. All plugs oily can indicate general wear - or the wrong heat range plugs!

    A compression test is likely to give a good indication of ring wear, although there is always the possibility of the compression rings being ok but a broken oil control ring. There is also the possibility of the cylinder walls being glazed.

    Unfortunately, while compression testing and borescope etc will give an indication as to the problem, the only definitive answer will be to pull the pistons and look at the rings.
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Homestar is offline Super Moderator & CA manager Gold Subscriber
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    Typically, if it was just the valve stem seals, the smoke would clear after a while unless the valve guides are really shot as well and there is noticeable movement laterally in the valves in which case the head will need some work. It is a good place to start though but my guess would be on the rings and bores - these engines were never made of the best steel back in the day and do wear quite a bit. If you aren't up for a full rebuild you may get away with a hone and a set of oversized rings - you will need to gap them properly before fitting them by pushing them right down the bore to measure the gap. If the bores are work and you just want a cheap stop gap, then this works to an extent - I've done it a few times on these engines. The bores will be flared at the top so push the rings right down into the bores to measure the ring gap.

    Yes, it's dodgy and really if it's that bad, you should rebuild the engine but if that's not an option then this can help for much cheaper - you can do it all in situ - head off, sump off, pistons out. A couple of days work.

    Start with the valve stems if you want - you don't need to remove the head to do this if you don't want to but it is easier to pull the head and that only takes an hour all in - you can stuff some rope into the cylinders through the spark plug hole then wind the engine around until its compressed somewhat - this will stop the valves falling down when you pull the valve springs but you'll need the right kind of valve spring compressor to do this or modify one to suit.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

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    update

    I like your thinking homestar... again this was never supposed to be a full on rebuild but it kinda happened that way, but just want to stop the smoke from the engine for now that will be my next challenge.

    Guess what turned up in the mail today my new set, silly me threw out a similar unit my late father had in his garage thinking i would never need one oh well.

    interesting read in the test results section and what the readings all mean or could possibly mean.

    now the hard work begins, i had began unbolting all the head bolts but did not move the cyl head so have tightened them back up but not torqued. i will attempt the readings today if the weather permits and report back my findings, very curious to find what's going on. wish me luck...
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    Land Rover

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    Joe ,
    These additives usually only work when you can drive the vehicle & load up the engine which helps to force the rings out against the bore to deglaze , they also clean the sludge out of the ring groves to free up the rings. They are not going to work just running the engine .
    Wayne

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    More update

    the results are in and I am overwhelmed by the results so happy

    Q1. lowest 150psi to highest 175psi see the results in pic, am I guaranteed on these results my piston rings are in great shape or what. What can I deduce from these results please. I have heard over 150 is good compression. Didn't bother with a wet test thought no need given the good results.

    Q2. there is black soot or carbon build up on the spark plugs - is this unburnt fuel perhaps?

    Q3. best way to tap the side of the block with head bolts out to get the damn head off. will not budge yet. curious to see inside.

    Overall pretty happy with todays effort and pleased the pistons are in good shape.

    photos to come...
    Land Rover

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    Homestar's Avatar
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    Good news. You don't have to be too shy on getting the head off, there is nothing really to break unless you have a sledgehammer in there.

    A sharp screwdriver or chisel between the head and block at one corner and a few taps until there's some pressure on there is usually enough to free the head - the block and head will be fine as long as there isn't a sharp burr or anything on what you're using.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

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    pics as promised

    1. working from the front of the engine to the back spark plug 1
    2. spark plug 2
    3. no 3
    4. no 4
    5. no 5 forgot to take a pic of no 6 spark plug. these were all new spark plugs so surprised how dirty they all look. will clean them up before inserting back in.

    6. test results cyl 4 + 5 were the best performing
    7-8. pics of the tappets, valve guides - anything unusual here that i am not seeing or does it look like its ok
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    Last edited by shamirj; 2nd February 2021 at 05:04 PM. Reason: additional info
    Land Rover

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    more updates on head

    1. cyl head removed as suggested, used small screw driver and hammered gently till it opened.

    2. valve side to be expected I am guessing soot or carbon build up over the years but there is evidence of oil still unsure whether its coming from the valve guides/seals

    3. wow a lot of cleaning to commence to get all this crap off

    4. are these push rods supposed to have open clean inners, mine seem to be blocked with junk, will clean these out as well

    5. another view of the condition of the push rods (do these replace the need for a timing belt)

    6. one of two snapped bolt remains, thinking i may heat up before attempting to retrieve

    7. 2nd bolt snapped at rear nearest the locating pin

    8. finally diff question - this is how i managed to secure a s2 mirror to the s1, but would like a better looking bracket then this - so what does a s1 bracket look like for the internal mirror.

    apart from cleaning the head, what should I commence on next, took the head gasket off in one piece (have a new one to use), new head bolts arrived in the mail as well as the lapping tool/paste
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    Land Rover

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    cleaning update

    1 bit worried about these holes which were small when i dig around they become larger, hmm... is this a bad sign for the head

    2 you can see the smallest hole in the gasket against the old and new gasket has become a bigger hole in the block

    3-4 managed to find a suitable nut and tightened down on the block where the two bolts snapped - will weld these from the top and then try to undo, thinking the heat from the weld may loosen the bolt left overs

    5 lapping tool and paste arrived

    6 are these push rods supposed to have clear inner holes, i cant seem to push through a wire cable to clean them out, is there a top side and bottom or does not matter which way round when installing
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    Last edited by shamirj; 3rd February 2021 at 11:11 AM. Reason: update
    Land Rover

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