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Thread: Holden 186 into Series 3 6 Cylinder Body

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    Question Holden 186 into Series 3 6 Cylinder Body

    Hi team,

    First post on the forum but I've been relying on the great info here for a bit before joining up. Great work.

    I did my best to find info on this via the threads, so apologies if this is covered and I didn't see it.

    I have two Series 3 trucks recently taken into my care, both with incorrect engines (and a billion other problems).

    The problem I'd like to tackle first is the LWB Series 3, originally a 6 cylinder. A series 2a engine has been spammed into the thing at some point with a couple of lengths of old steel acting as adaptors. Can't believe it's been driven around like this. Needs to be sorted ASAP before the engine falls out.

    Eventually I'd like to find a Landy 6 to put back. Haven't seen one I can afford so far. I DO have a 186 Holden which was in a Landy and which has the gear box adaptor. The person I took custodianship of the 186 from suggested that the Holden would fit onto the Land Rover 6 engine mounts with no adaptors or alterations.

    This sounds too good to be true. Is it?

    I THINK that the gear box and drive train are the original 6 cylinder gear. Some of the body panels are incorrect but I have a stash that can be matched up correctly once the mechanics are sorted. Any help appreciated.

    Kane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful Machines View Post
    Hi team,

    First post on the forum but I've been relying on the great info here for a bit before joining up. Great work.

    I did my best to find info on this via the threads, so apologies if this is covered and I didn't see it.

    I have two Series 3 trucks recently taken into my care, both with incorrect engines (and a billion other problems).

    The problem I'd like to tackle first is the LWB Series 3, originally a 6 cylinder. A series 2a engine has been spammed into the thing at some point with a couple of lengths of old steel acting as adaptors. Can't believe it's been driven around like this. Needs to be sorted ASAP before the engine falls out.

    Eventually I'd like to find a Landy 6 to put back. Haven't seen one I can afford so far. I DO have a 186 Holden which was in a Landy and which has the gear box adaptor. The person I took custodianship of the 186 from suggested that the Holden would fit onto the Land Rover 6 engine mounts with no adaptors or alterations.

    This sounds too good to be true. Is it?

    I THINK that the gear box and drive train are the original 6 cylinder gear. Some of the body panels are incorrect but I have a stash that can be matched up correctly once the mechanics are sorted. Any help appreciated.

    Kane.

    The Land Rover 6-cylinder motor is either loved or hated it seems. You also need to be aware that parts availability isn't the best with some items less common than rocking horse droppings.
    I think Australia probably had more of the 6-cylinder motors because they were fitted to the Series III Army vehicles. This means that sourcing from the UK can also be a problem as they weren't popular there.
    I've been warned about high fuel consumption but haven't used mine on the road yet.
    FFR Refurb

    I've removed a couple of Holden motors from Land Rovers I've parted out and there were always some odd brackets to mount the engine (in a 4-cyl or 6-cyl) so it won't drop into the existing mounts.
    I'd have to see if I have any photos of the 6-cyl I parted out.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  3. #3
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    JDNSW is online now RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    Further to Colin's information, you can probably be reassured that there is not serious a gearbox issue - the six and the four shared the same gearbox and transfer case - except for the bell housing, which is different - so you need to check which the adapter you have fits - the only other difference is that the six has a different set of bends on the gearlever to suit. But note that the 2a gearbox is different from the 3 - both internally (all synchro on 3) and the clutch operating mechanism, but they are the same dimensions, and hence interchangeable, albeit in some cases requiring a bit of work, and there were changes over time.
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    The Land Rover 6-cylinder motor is either loved or hated it seems. You also need to be aware that parts availability isn't the best with some items less common than rocking horse droppings.
    I think Australia probably had more of the 6-cylinder motors because they were fitted to the Series III Army vehicles. This means that sourcing from the UK can also be a problem as they weren't popular there.
    I've been warned about high fuel consumption but haven't used mine on the road yet.
    FFR Refurb

    I've removed a couple of Holden motors from Land Rovers I've parted out and there were always some odd brackets to mount the engine (in a 4-cyl or 6-cyl) so it won't drop into the existing mounts.
    I'd have to see if I have any photos of the 6-cyl I parted out.


    Colin
    The FFR project looks cool Colin. I reckon those turquoise seats pop real well. How's the project coming along?

    I'm not too fussed on the originality of the truck as she's been through several decades of bad treatment and wrong parts, so if the Holden works out I'll probably stick with it. That said - the truck does seem to be asking for her engine back. There's something about the look of the 6 cylinder engine bay I reckon. The 4 definitely is all wrong in there. If I stumble across one one day maybe I'll add it to the pile, despite the draw backs.

    If you do find any photos of a Holden mounted in a 6 cylinder body I'd be super grateful. It's an interesting lego set there's not really a manual for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful Machines View Post
    The FFR project looks cool Colin. I reckon those turquoise seats pop real well. How's the project coming along?

    .
    Along with a couple of other projects it's always been slow progress.
    3 Land Rovers to keep on the road, a daily driver, the wife's car, kids, garden etc. there's always something that keeps me from working on them.

    I'll have a look tonight, I'm sure I took some engine mount photo's for someone but they are on another computer.
    From memory it was bits of angle iron so not 'professional'.

    I've just been offered a spare 6-cyl motor which I'll collect once we get out of lockdown. Handy to have a source of spare parts.

    If you find an engine for sale it was probably removed to fit a Holden so it will possibly need reconditioning.



    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    Further to Colin's information, you can probably be reassured that there is not serious a gearbox issue - the six and the four shared the same gearbox and transfer case - except for the bell housing, which is different - so you need to check which the adapter you have fits - the only other difference is that the six has a different set of bends on the gearlever to suit. But note that the 2a gearbox is different from the 3 - both internally (all synchro on 3) and the clutch operating mechanism, but they are the same dimensions, and hence interchangeable, albeit in some cases requiring a bit of work, and there were changes over time.
    Okay cool - this is good info. Thanks John.

    I have collected three gear boxes now. One attached to the Holden (which is all kinds of jammed up). One attached to the 2a engine (which functions but screams like a banshee). One of unknown origin. They each have different shifters which may or may not help working out what they are. I know that the gearbox in the main truck is pulled too far forward or has the wrong shifter as it hits the dash and gets pushed out of gear.

    One lucky note, there's a Fairy overdrive attached to the functional gearbox. The shifter and linkages are missing and the thing will need to be rebuilt - but it exists.

    I've got some rebuild kits on the way. With these and the three boxes I'm hopeful I can build out at least one good unit.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Along with a couple of other projects it's always been slow progress.
    3 Land Rovers to keep on the road, a daily driver, the wife's car, kids, garden etc. there's always something that keeps me from working on them.

    I'll have a look tonight, I'm sure I took some engine mount photo's for someone but they are on another computer.
    From memory it was bits of angle iron so not 'professional'.

    I've just been offered a spare 6-cyl motor which I'll collect once we get out of lockdown. Handy to have a source of spare parts.

    If you find an engine for sale it was probably removed to fit a Holden so it will possibly need reconditioning.



    Colin
    Yeah - I'd be expecting anything that was pulled out to have been killed, hence the pulling out. I'd not be rushing on it. Slow burns.

    A spare engine will be helpful for sure, so that's a good score. I reckon they are out there. Under benches under dust.

    If you do find those pics I reckon they'll be helpful - but no stress. I'll be doing a slightly better than angle iron job on mine ultimately but clues will help.

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    One other question someone might know the answer to.

    The truck with the 6 in it has non-power assisted brakes. The truck it's going into has the power assisted master.

    Anyone know the correct method for connecting the 186 vacuum line up to the brake master?

    Pics?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful Machines View Post
    One other question someone might know the answer to.

    The truck with the 6 in it has non-power assisted brakes. The truck it's going into has the power assisted master.

    Anyone know the correct method for connecting the 186 vacuum line up to the brake master?

    Pics?
    Firstly your 186 will go well in the Landy that had the original six cylinder in it.
    If the adaptor plate you have is drilled for the four cylinder stud pattern it can be re-drilled for the six cylinder
    without to much hassle, or alternatively pick up one with the correct stud pattern. Any Holden adaptor
    plate made for a Series 1 (four cylinder) shared the same stud pattern as the later Land Rover six cylinder ones.
    As for the engine mounts, no issues there, no modifications needed to your chassis, just pick up a set of engine
    mounts to suit a Holden Six into a Land Rover six conversion kit. There were two types back in the day, fabricated
    ones, and a cast version. The standard Land Rover rubber mounts for the petrol or diesel engine can be used.
    If you use the four cylinder radiator you will have to get the outlets changed on it to suit the Holden engine, but you
    may have a radiator thats already converted in one of your vehicles.
    In regards to the pickup for the vacuum brake booster there is either a fitting/hose tail or a plug on the inlet manifold
    of the 186, usually on the back half of the manifold.

    Be a aware when the six cylinder Land Rover came into being the gearbox was moved back about 100 mm in those
    particular models, hence the variation in the Holden conversion engine mounts.
    If you want any more info let me know, or i can PM you my phone number if you want to have a yarn about it.

    I will post a couple of pics of the various engine mounts to give you some idea, the long ones are six cylinder, the short
    are for the four cylinder. The last two pics are is adaptor plate for a Holden Six to a Land Rover four cylinder.
    For a six cylinder the stud pattern in the last pic would have those holes in a different configuration starting at 12 o'clock.
    I am not sure why the plates were not not made with both stud patterns on them, maybe it was thought that strength
    would be compromised.

    Good Luck.
    Cheers, Mick.
    1974 S3 88 Holden 186.
    1971 S2A 88
    1971 S2A 109 6 cyl. tray back.
    1964 S2A 88 "Starfire Four" engine!
    1972 S3 88 x 2
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-014
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-556
    1988 Perentie 110 FFR ARN 48-728 steering now KLR PAS!
    REMLR 88
    1969 BSA Bantam B175

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    Quote Originally Posted by mick88 View Post
    Firstly your 186 will go well in the Landy that had the original six cylinder in it.
    If the adaptor plate you have is drilled for the four cylinder stud pattern it can be re-drilled for the six cylinder
    without to much hassle, or alternatively pick up one with the correct stud pattern. Any Holden adaptor
    plate made for a Series 1 (four cylinder) shared the same stud pattern as the later Land Rover six cylinder ones.
    As for the engine mounts, no issues there, no modifications needed to your chassis, just pick up a set of engine
    mounts to suit a Holden Six into a Land Rover six conversion kit. There were two types back in the day, fabricated
    ones, and a cast version. The standard Land Rover rubber mounts for the petrol or diesel engine can be used.
    If you use the four cylinder radiator you will have to get the outlets changed on it to suit the Holden engine, but you
    may have a radiator thats already converted in one of your vehicles.
    In regards to the pickup for the vacuum brake booster there is either a fitting/hose tail or a plug on the inlet manifold
    of the 186, usually on the back half of the manifold.

    Be a aware when the six cylinder Land Rover came into being the gearbox was moved back about 100 mm in those
    particular models, hence the variation in the Holden conversion engine mounts.
    If you want any more info let me know, or i can PM you my phone number if you want to have a yarn about it.

    I will post a couple of pics of the various engine mounts to give you some idea, the long ones are six cylinder, the short
    are for the four cylinder. The last two pics are is adaptor plate for a Holden Six to a Land Rover four cylinder.
    For a six cylinder the stud pattern in the last pic would have those holes in a different configuration starting at 12 o'clock.
    I am not sure why the plates were not not made with both stud patterns on them, maybe it was thought that strength
    would be compromised.

    Good Luck.
    Cheers, Mick.
    Amazing thanks Mick - this is SUPER helpful. When I get back to the trucks I'll dive in again now I know what I'm looking for. Fingers crossed most of it is there already.

    One worry I do have is about the position of the gearbox. In the 6 cylinder truck (with thew 2a engine) the gearbox seems like it's too far forward. I have a feeling it's the engine position pulling it out of whack. I'll try and find the correct measurements somewhere and see how far off everything is.

    From what you say if I do have decent mount adapters for the 186 from the 4 cylinder body they won't work in the 6 cylinder body. Do you know if they are still being manufactured or do I need to find some from a wrecked truck?

    I've also noticed the difference in the two bulkheads. It's a shame because the 4 cylinder bulkhead is in really nice condition and the 6 is toast. Would be great to be able to swap them out while the 6 bulkhead gets repaired.

    I'll drop you a PM for sure - be great to chat about a few things. Will do so when I'm back near the tools.

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