slight shudder from auto trans

It has just occurred to me that fluid level checks are not a routine part of an oil change any longer.

I realize that this comment sounds silly, but now that I think about it, twenty years back, an oil change also meant also unscrewing the fill plug in the rear end and sticking ones finger in to feel the oil level if none started to flow out; same with a manual transmission, and with the automatic, pulling the dip stick at warm idle and both looking at the fluid level and smelling it.

Now, if one wants the fluid level checked in something, it is first a special to be requested flat rate procedure and a bill for new plugs. Given that there is no routine level checking when going for a dealer change oil, and there is often some question as to if the fill plug will even unscrew as it is probably frozen in, we pretty much have proof that sealed for life means ignored till dead.

The new engine on the V8 petrol LR4 does not even have a dipstick. This reminds me of heavy jet engines that use sensors for everything and an in flight shutdown is the answer to a low oil level indication. At least for the most part, the jet sensors fail with oil still in the engine; I hope the Jaguar sensors fail the same and then there is the question of how does the driver react to another red light or whatever on the dash -the way they most often do to the red low oil pressure light I suppose -tape over it.

There is a drive line over temperature light display on the dash, but I am not clear if the temperature being measured is at the transfer case or within the automatic transmission or perhaps the differentials? From what I can find, however, is that the temperature being monitored is that of the electric transfer case motor as there is a temperature sensor located within the electric motor housing. That is not what I would have had in mind if I had been designing red lights. I guess what is now clear is that there is no low oil level warning sensor within the transfer case design.

This I suppose will be the same story with the front and rear differentials - no oil level monitoring and no temperature monitoring and of course, no routine manual level checking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tote

More exciting news - it seems that my transfer case is also damaged beyond repair. The front driveshaft splines had welded themselves into the transfer case. When they got it out it seems that I am up for a new transfer case. Early diagnosis is that it may be lubricant related. Checking my service records I can find no evidence of ever being charged for the transfer case oil that is supposed to be replaced at 120000KM. ****ing dealers.

:angrylock:

Regards,
Tote

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:eek::eek::eek::mad::mad::mad: You are kidding !!!
I replaced my transfer fluid at 170k, and was quite discoloured.
The issues you have experienced have not got any better for you Tote.
What was the final verdict with the auto trans???

What the.... there are going to be some mad scrambling sounds from every ones car ports and garages this weekend I reckon as we all check our transfer boxes out.

Tote this bites totally.... I can only hope that the bill does not induce a heart attack... this is crazy stuff.

Dave had your box had a fluid change prior to 170k?

BBYER I was told by a very good Alfa Romeo mechanic who queried the lack of dipstick when he got his first BMW to service. He has a close mate at BMW who promptly informed that because the cars were so reliable now, they aim for parts sales precipitated by component failure.... kind of seems right in relation to what we see now on our modern designed vehicles with inherent fault inducing features.

We could add FIF as one of the acronyms to the feature pack? D3 TDV6 HSE FIF perhaps?

Cheers(?)
:)

Some more info on the Transfer Case. The fault is that the splines that mate with the gearbox output shaft are quite severly sawtooth shaped. The fact that the dealer hasnt changed the transfer case oil would not have affected this. There is also evidence that there has been water in there at some point but this is not unexpected and the housing has open drain holes. My guess is that the assembly lubricant put on in the factory was not sufficient and combined with my use of the vehicle offroad has contributed to the spline wear.
Not sure how to prevent it, maybe a silicone seal over the drain plug?? The new one will be assembled with an adequate amount of lubricant. I also wonder that given the difficulty that the repairer had getting the transfer case off whether the splines would have lasted another couple of hunderd thousand KM before they stripped.

Transfer case is not a repairable item in AUS, LR Aust wanted $5500 and a month to get one here. Repairer has sourced one out of the UK for approx $4K landed.
End result of my negotioations with LR aust over the transmisssion was "I'm sorry sir that is not covered by any sort of warranty" a case has been logged with consumer affairs so we'll see what happens.

Regards,
Tote

PS. The comment was made that no previous Land Rover had experienced this problem as they has sufficient lubricant weeping past the seals to prevent it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tote

Some more info on the Transfer Case. The fault is that the splines that mate with the gearbox output shaft are quite severly sawtooth shaped. The fact that the dealer hasnt changed the transfer case oil would not have affected this. There is also evidence that there has been water in there at some point but this is not unexpected and the housing has open drain holes. My guess is that the assembly lubricant put on in the factory was not sufficient and combined with my use of the vehicle offroad has contributed to the spline wear.
Not sure how to prevent it, maybe a silicone seal over the drain plug?? The new one will be assembled with an adequate amount of lubricant. I also wonder that given the difficulty that the repairer had getting the transfer case off whether the splines would have lasted another couple of hunderd thousand KM before they stripped.

Transfer case is not a repairable item in AUS, LR Aust wanted $5500 and a month to get one here. Repairer has sourced one out of the UK for approx $4K landed.
End result of my negotiations with LR aust over the transmisssion was "I'm sorry sir that is not covered by any sort of warranty" a case has been logged with consumer affairs so we'll see what happens.

Regards,
Tote

PS. The comment was made that no previous Land Rover had experienced this problem as they has sufficient lubricant weeping past the seals to prevent it.

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Tote, Not trying to plug Nerang Diff Service, but he will be able to repair the transfer.
Maybe a phone call to him would be a help !!
The Transfer would need to be freighted to him. (e-go.com) very cheap !!
I have found him fantastic, and has contacts here and overseas to source parts promptly.
He looks after quite a few Landies from the GC Landrover Owners Club.
Another option, contact British Offroad and ask for Mark. He has a wrecked D3, and also MR Automotive, Redcliffe. Brisbane. He also has a wrecked D3 or can source one for you.
A suggestion for some options only.
If l may be of any assistance with some info, feel free in asking anytime.

Well my truck doesn't shudder anymore. $13999.87 later. That included a service as well.....
Transfer case, new out of LR UK $4263.65
Transmission Reco from A&B $6000

Interestingly a slight clunk from the drive train when accelerating from a trailing throttle is no longer there, I'll put that down to the worn splines. The transfer case was a new one on an exchange basis , it seems that LR UK want some cores to rebuild.

Transmission output shaft. Looking closely you can see the difference where the splines weren't engaged.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_3467.jpg

Input shaft on transfer case

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_3470.jpg

Transfer case

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_3469.jpg

Another close up of the input shaft, unfortunately most of the splines are out of focus.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_3471.jpg

Regards,
Tote

Modern vehicles out of warranty are like a very expensive time bomb in some cases. I feel for you mate. I have a good mate with an XC90 iced vovo - JUST inside warranty. Cosseted vehicle. No towing or off road. Owned and serviced by Volvo since new...new auto box...would have been a $7,000 part (add labour to that) alone if it had gone a little later in the day..

There is, without a doubt, something to be said for a good old fashioned 5 or 6 speed manual box.

Cheers

In reality OzScott the main difference is that when vehicles get older there are often lots of them in wreckers where you can buy spares from at reasonable prices. This is the case with D1's and D2's, but not yet with D3's.

When they are fairly new like D3's are then your choices are very limited and usually you have to buy new parts. I bet in another five years time when D3's are the same price as D2's are now there will be a reasonable choice of second hand parts available at good prices.

As for manuals versus auto's and which one is better in Disco's I have both so I'm not supporting one over the other as both serve their purpose.

PS...Sorry to hear Tote that you ended up with such a horrific bill.

cheers,
Terry

Tote.... $14k..... wow.... hope you don't have to sell a kidney over this.

Best to you...

Yep, thats painful.
Alot more than l thought for the repair and parts.
I think Tote's D3 is an out of ordinary repair, but brings to our attention
the issues that may arise in the future.
Thanks Tote for all the information and advise, as it will certainly help us all understand the issues.
I feel your pain after spending $11,500.00 on my D3 in the past 8 months, but the end result is finally the car is providing some good service.
Lets hope that this is the end of our auto issues:angel:;)