D4 AS COMMON AS LC200 SOON

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Originally Posted by F4Phantom

Looks is one thing but based on what I have read the 'feel' of a car is much more than the quality of your dampers. It comes from the intelligence and engineering quality of the chassis, and that is how much time and money and effort was put into all the little holes, folds, bends, cuts, lips, chamfers, and intricacy of the base chassis. I dont know how much the LC200 cost to make, but the commodore cost 1B the falcon 500m and the 2003 RR 1.6B which to my knowledge is still the most expensive chassis ever made.

A porsche dealer once told me most designs cost 1b to develop so the RR was a lot more at 1.6. And it makes the commodore look expensive compared to the falcon because commodore with curtain airbags got a 4 star safety rating (the first series) compared with the falcons 5 star without curtain airbags, so the intelligence in build is very important as the falcon was half the cost and really just as good a car.

So in conclusion a LR feels better than a toyota to drive, and its presence comes from how it sits on the road, somthing that toyota for some reason cant emulate as its certainly more than badge deep, it could be either they spend more money, or they make some good design decisions.

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Very well said.

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Originally Posted by F4Phantom

Looks is one thing but based on what I have read the 'feel' of a car is much more than the quality of your dampers. It comes from the intelligence and engineering quality of the chassis, and that is how much time and money and effort was put into all the little holes, folds, bends, cuts, lips, chamfers, and intricacy of the base chassis. I dont know how much the LC200 cost to make, but the commodore cost 1B the falcon 500m and the 2003 RR 1.6B which to my knowledge is still the most expensive chassis ever made.

A porsche dealer once told me most designs cost 1b to develop so the RR was a lot more at 1.6. And it makes the commodore look expensive compared to the falcon because commodore with curtain airbags got a 4 star safety rating (the first series) compared with the falcons 5 star without curtain airbags, so the intelligence in build is very important as the falcon was half the cost and really just as good a car.

So in conclusion a LR feels better than a toyota to drive, and its presence comes from how it sits on the road, somthing that toyota for some reason cant emulate as its certainly more than badge deep, it could be either they spend more money, or they make some good design decisions.

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Don't know if all you D4 owners are having the same experience as me. Ever since I took delivery, I have had so many admirers of my LR and ad hoc conversations with people about my D4.

Related to the above comments by F4Phantom, I feel people just aren't seeing the value of Toyota anymore and are really taken by how good the D4 looks and how well it drives. A Prado and an LC may have similar off-road cred as a LR but they just don't do it as well. On my recent Fraser Island trip, my mate's 2008 Prado handled everything with ease but the ride just wasn't as good. My D4 was an absolue pleasure to drive even through some really cut-up surfaces.

Finally on the Toyota topic. I was sitting on the barge coming home from Fraser and had followed a late model LC and a late model Prado on board. My LR was covered head to foot in mud, sand and salt spray and yet Mr Prado was openly ogling it and then struck up a conversation.

Turns out the guy is a dentist so probablt has a few quid. He actually owned both the LC and Prado. He told me he was looking to replace the Prado and had just had been checking out the new model and stated that he just did not like it. He also stated that he thought that it was way too expensive for what was being offered and that he was committed to getting a D4 as he felt that it was a much better car and was much better value for money.

He wasn't telling me anything I didn't already know but it's a good feeling.

Oh what a feeling.....Land Rover......LOL!!!! :D

There's no question that overall, the D4 is a better vehicle in many ways than the 200, and by a margin. That's not to say there isn't a case for a 200 or that it's a bad car, it's very good indeed.

What is stopping people buying Land Rovers is a fear of unreliability and electronics for the most part. That, and sheer brand snobbery (something never seen with LR owners of course...)

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Originally Posted by rmp

That, and sheer brand snobbery (something never seen with LR owners of course...)

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Talked to a Defender Owner lately?
:angel::angel::angel:
;):p

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Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

Talked to a Defender Owner lately?
:angel::angel::angel:
;):p

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What, yelled over the noise you mean?

There are those that say electronics are bad.

There are those that say independent suspension is bad.

Still others say coil springs were a backwards step.

And others say the whole coming down from the trees and walking on the hind legs idea was a bad move.

Hi
Saw a couple of silver/grey D3/4's not sure with com gov plates at Tailem Bend down here in south oz they were fully tricked up and the guys had brown /uniforms on -so used to seeing LC's but a lot of the guys who use the current Cruisers comment that toyo seem to have got it wrong .
It wont be long til Defender have the offroad -real off road to it self!

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

Don't know if all you D4 owners are having the same experience as me. Ever since I took delivery, I have had so many admirers of my LR and ad hoc conversations with people about my D4.

Related to the above comments by F4Phantom, I feel people just aren't seeing the value of Toyota anymore and are really taken by how good the D4 looks and how well it drives. A Prado and an LC may have similar off-road cred as a LR but they just don't do it as well. On my recent Fraser Island trip, my mate's 2008 Prado handled everything with ease but the ride just wasn't as good. My D4 was an absolue pleasure to drive even through some really cut-up surfaces.

Finally on the Toyota topic. I was sitting on the barge coming home from Fraser and had followed a late model LC and a late model Prado on board. My LR was covered head to foot in mud, sand and salt spray and yet Mr Prado was openly ogling it and then struck up a conversation.

Turns out the guy is a dentist so probablt has a few quid. He actually owned both the LC and Prado. He told me he was looking to replace the Prado and had just had been checking out the new model and stated that he just did not like it. He also stated that he thought that it was way too expensive for what was being offered and that he was committed to getting a D4 as he felt that it was a much better car and was much better value for money.

He wasn't telling me anything I didn't already know but it's a good feeling.

Oh what a feeling.....Land Rover......LOL!!!! :D

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I Agree - value for money may be Toyota's undoing - Prado GXLs and Kakadu's are not significantly cheaper than the D4 SEs and the Landrovers are better cars and better equipped. The price one has to pay for an LC200 these days will get a D4 HSE just about, the better equipped LC200's are now approching Range Rover territory in terms of price, so why would anyone want an LC200?

It appears the gap may be narrowing further - ever since the D4 and the new RRS have hit the scene, the motoring press has continually pilloried their tyre/ rim choice. Apparently, the LC200 and the yet to be released Patrol are following suit. Maybe we will all get better tyre choices going forward. Interesting to see the Thin Blue Line are now equipped with D4s - hopefully, LR will extend servicing support to more regional areas as a result.

Perhaps the aftermarket industry might also spot the trend and start to provide the same range of options currently enjoyed by the Japanese brands. We can but hope.

I must say I have had my Disco 4 HSE for 2 and a half weeks and take it to work at an Army barracks every day. I reckon I have showed at least 20 people over the car in detail and I think some are definitely leaning towards LR for their next purchase. However LR still have the reliability hurdle to get over. Almost everyone who has looked at the car or who has discussed it with me makes a comment on the reliability aspect. It seems that people are having trouble reconciling past issues.
I can't really answer them except to say I did some extensive research before I spent a six-figure sum on the vehicle and I really really hope the reliability issues have been resolved. Maybe I'll have an answer for the doubters in a few years. I didn't tell them that I hate Toyotas with a passion after what they did to me a few years ago. So the fact that the LC200 is not getting favourable write ups helped my decision making.
So saying the above most of the guys cannot afford or don't want to invest in an expensive 4WD. So I recommend a Pajero over a Prado every time. Indeed I can boast I have cost Toyota at least 15 vehicle sales maybe more over the last six years!
I still retain a permagrin as the D4 is a fantastic car (crap Nav system notwithstanding!). It is absolutely a winner.
Cheers
George

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Originally Posted by GeorgeK

So I recommend a Pajero over a Prado every time. Indeed I can boast I have cost Toyota at least 15 vehicle sales maybe more over the last six years!
I still retain a permagrin as the D4 is a fantastic car (crap Nav system notwithstanding!). It is absolutely a winner.
Cheers
George

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I've gotta agree with you George. As you know I've had mine about the same time and I have absolutely no regrets coming out of a LandCruiser (albeit a 100 series GLX). The two cars are like chalk and cheese. The salesman told me to expect this but I thought it was only "sales" talk.

And I also agree about the Prado versus Paj angle. I had a crap 1992 Pajero as an "interim" car for a few months between the Cruiser and the D4. I've got some mates with a 2000 Prado and I reckon the Paj, which is 8 years its senior, offered a more comfortable ride and better equipment.

Regards, Ron

Hmm...Prado vs Pajero. One is not better than the other, it depends on your priorities. The Pajero is the sharper handler and not quite as good offroad nor as comfy a ride. Interior is a matter of personal opinion, particuarly the third row. They are as like and different as Sydney and Melbourne.

Neither are as good an all-rounder as a D4, particularly falling obviously short on towing capacity. Used to be that neither were as pricey, but check spec levels of a 2.7 SE vs a Pajero and especially Prado.