Disco 4 V Landcruiser Prado

Grumndriva from memory you have at least 3 of the major suspension chains offering GVM upgrade kits to the LC200 as when you add in a few extra items, such as bullbar, winch, 4 passengers and a large tow ball weight such as a van or multiple horse float, it also exceeds the payload (OME, pedders are 2 I can recall). Perhaps before you shell out you should enquire if you could upgrade the GVM on a disco4 or as has been pointed out get the 2.7 and your 100kg's better of already with tyre issues solved as well. One other point given your implied age("10-15yrs driving left") is the ability of the d4 to lower itself for ease of entry/exit which may help you to keep 4x4ing a while longer;)

OK my thoughts, seeing as I'm doing the same as Terry, looking for a new tow vehicle to replace my D2, I thought I'd say why we decided on a D3, I won't bag the Toyota because in all fairness they are a great car and well it is out of our price range for a start and I just don't like the look of the vehicle, so why a D3, well because I have driven the D3 that is used at my work, it is only a coiler but still handles the sweeper and trailer with 4 big blokes and all there gear, all up around 2.5tonne +, the sweeper alone is 1.4t, in all honesty it wasn't obvoius at first that it had all that weight on behind, which really impressed me, and, after taking the trailer off, well lets just say WOW, compare it to my chipped D2, the D2 does not even come close.

Having driven a few different 4Bs now, the closest comfort wise to the D3 in my opinion, is the Pajero, it is also a very good tug, tows a camper with relative ease, it was considered, they are great value for money and come standard with a rear electric locker.

Now unlike Terry I'm only going to be towing 1.5t + gear, so not a lot of weight and really any of the current diesel 4WDs could tow this weight, but I like the look of the D3, I love how they ride, they are amazing offroad, having followed one or two over the last few years.

So for me it's an easy decision.

On one note that may interest some, the oil consuption of the 200 and 76series, Toyota have a fix for it, but will only do this fix if for one you ask or it uses over 800ml between service intervals, it is a simple fix, a second gasket on the oil scavenger pump in the sump:eek:

Anyway my 2 cents

Baz.

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Originally Posted by frantic

Grumndriva from memory you have at least 3 of the major suspension chains offering GVM upgrade kits to the LC200 as when you add in a few extra items, such as bullbar, winch, 4 passengers and a large tow ball weight such as a van or multiple horse float, it also exceeds the payload (OME, pedders are 2 I can recall). Perhaps before you shell out you should enquire if you could upgrade the GVM on a disco4 or as has been pointed out get the 2.7 and your 100kg's better of already with tyre issues solved as well. One other point given your implied age("10-15yrs driving left") is the ability of the d4 to lower itself for ease of entry/exit which may help you to keep 4x4ing a while longer;)

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Hey Frantic, talking of the D4's ability to be able to lower itself. I had to take a new client and her elderly mother around to show her a few of our building projects this morning. The mum had difficulty getting out (same problem getting in) of her daughters Pajero, so I lowered the suspension to make it easier for her to climb into mine. Well......both mother and daughter were that blown away, the daughter is now looking at buying a new D4, as her Pajero is up for replacing anyway.
Another Landrover moment.

Cheers, Craig

(I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another ... Oh bugger ............)

Look, we went through this exercise months ago. Someone asked for real-world experience towing large loads with the D3/D4/RRS. Quite a few of us responded, all in the affirmative - the LR product was streets ahead in towing when compared to the std WDH setup. All correctly set-up media tow tests have said the same. So in the _real_ world, there is ample evidence that the combination of electronic aids + EAS in the D3/D4 is amongst the safest and easiest to tow with. We're not all lying, or making it up.

Why does this not seem to gel with the theoretical physics people claim gives WDH an advantage? Because the model used for what the WDH does is not realistic. In the real world, the angle between the vehicle and the van varies constantly, and often quite violently and normally with a lag in phase. In those common instances, the leveraging effect of WDH will compromise the pitch of the towing vehicle, multiplied by the leverage being provided. There are yet-more-complications that can be added to attempt to reduce this. But it is far less problematic in a properly set-up D3 or D4.

Cheers,

Gordon

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

(I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another WDH argument. I will not enter into another ... Oh bugger ............)

Cheers,

Gordon

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Gday...

I'm with Gordon above ... but this quote from our mate who feels the LC200 is his 'better choice' causes me to respond....
QUOTE:The inability to use a WDH with the D4 remains for me a major safety disadvantage. Air Suspension. Just a quick point on air suspension. While it is great in normal use, it is not a positive for caravan touring. A fixed suspension height is probably preferable, particularly when you want to leave the rig coupled overnight.END-QUOTE

I tow a 23ft van - ATM 2680kg with D3 2.7TDV6 Auto. Before the D3 I used a vehicle that did it very well, but without WDH, it poked its eyes into the sky when the van was connected. WDH kept the van and tug level - BUT - on undulating roads it groaned and sometimes 'pitched' the vehicle through dips. The WDH groaned around corners especially when setting the van up (reversing etc). The WDH bottomed out through driveways such at servos when refuelling. Despite all that it certainly was better to tow with WDH with that vehicle.

I was quite apprehensive when told not to use WDH with the D3. However, having now towed the van over 13,000km through outback NSW and QLD on very average back roads with the D3 and no WDH has been an amazing experience. We have felt the safest we have felt in a tow vehicle in over 20 years of caravanning.

OH yes ... and we often bush camped and left the rig coupled to the D3 ... the ability to use either access/standard/offroad to level the van and then whack on the jockey wheel was very useful.

As they say - Horses for courses ... and the choice will always be an 'emotional' one ...

The D3 (and I am sure the D4) are exceptional vehicles.

Cheers
John

Man, I'm having a serious case of Déjà Vu.....

Did'n't we do this to death ages ago....wasn't it the same people and the same 'facts' being presented?

As soon as someone writes an LC200 is as least as comfortable to ride in as a D4, you have to wonder whether they have even seen one, let alone been in one....LOL!!! :wasntme:

Wheels..I suspect Gordon organising wheels for ten people has nothing to do with a towing shortfall....much more to do with a perception of rugged terrain capability.....terrain that you couldn't take a van into.

And yeah, get some gerry cans..

Getting back to the original video....did I watch the wrong one? How did that lead to "similar concerns I've been having"? My take on the video was that they were surprised that the Prado did so well but the D4 did it with more...comfort, ease...something like that. He did mention that the Prado did seem to have better grip at times.....I'm thinking tyres....as in OEM. Yet they both got stuck in the same spots.

I'm thinking he was pretty brave to go in all that slippery snow and mud with the OEM Wranglers at all.....LOL!!! I've been in a fair bit of slippery mud with mine and whilst I've managed to get through, the tyres slick up pretty fast and you do a fair bit of skating....as you would expect.

And on road.....no competition at all......... D4 hands down. :)

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

Man, I'm having a serious case of Déjà Vu.....

Did'n't we do this to death ages ago....wasn't it the same people and the same 'facts' being presented?

As soon as someone writes an LC200 is as least as comfortable to ride in as a D4, you have to wonder whether they have even seen one, let alone been in one....LOL!!! :wasntme:

Wheels..I suspect Gordon organising wheels for ten people has nothing to do with a towing shortfall....much more to do with a perception of rugged terrain capability.....terrain that you couldn't take a van into.

Getting back to the original video....did I watch the wrong one? How did that lead to "similar concerns I've been having"? My take on the video was that they were surprised that the Prado did so well but the D4 did it with more...comfort, ease...something like that. He did mention that the Prado did seem to have better grip at times.....I'm thinking tyres....as in OEM. Yet they both got stuck in the same spots.

I'm thinking he was pretty brave to go in all that slippery snow and mud with the OEM Wranglers at all.....LOL!!! I've been in a fair bit of slippery mud with mine and whilst I've managed to get through, the tyres slick up pretty fast and you do a fair bit of skating....as you would expect.

And on road.....no competition at all......... D4 hands down. :)

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Suggest you re-read what I wrote.

Re the WDH, while I am a WDH user and would not be without one on my D2, to say that the inability to use a WDH on a D4 is a safety issue is open to debate.

As you say, a WDH transfers weight forward to the front wheels to compensate for the weight taken off them by plonking a couple of hundred kg on the towball. Whether the lack of a WDH is a safety issue or not depends on how much weight is taken off the front wheels as a proportion of the vehicle's weight and whether it would compromise steering and braking. I suggest that for a heavy vehicle like the D4 the weight taken off the front wheels would have little or no effect on safety. The long wheelbase compared to body length of the D4 would also reduce the effect of ball weight. Don't forget that the D4 was designed in the UK where they have never heard of WDHs but still tow heavy loads.

While I would not be without a WDH on my D2 I would be quite happy to accept LR's advice and not have one on a D3/D4.

Stephen.

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

Please search the forum re the WDH issue - it's been done to death. By your use of the D2 with polybags as a comparison, it's obvious you don't understand the D4 system. In a nutshell - I and many other D4 owners have owned both systems - WDH and D4 EAS. We can tell you from real-world experience which is better. You've had WDH experience only, and so have your LC-owning mates. How can you make that call? The Overlander article you cite was seriously flawed in that they actually used the WDH on an EAS D3. The two systems 'fight' each other.

And what's wrong with jerry cans on the van? I use my 2.6T van with 4 jerries. Gets me an _easy_ 600km

Cheers,

Gordon

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Thanks Gordon. I think I do understand SLS, but I was not comparing it with airbags: just making the point that all pax vehicles will drop at the rear when you put a load on the tow ball without something to lift them up again. LR chose its SLS system for the D3/4, and that is fine. But it doesn't restore weight to the front wheels. A recent test by C&MH showed that the van tested (I can't remember what weight) reduced the front wheel load on a D3 by 5%. That may seem small, and it may be insignificant in real world situations. But it might also translate into a 5% loss of braking - perhaps someone here who is qualified can enlighten me - and that would worry me. It could make the difference between being scared or being hurt. But it isn't a show stopper, just a consideration in the big mix.

By the way I didn't cite any Overlander article. You have confused me for someone else. As far as I know I also don't have any LC owning mates: just people I have met on the road.

As far as I know, fuel filled jerry cans on the outside of a van are no longer legal, but I will check.

Thanks for your input.

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Originally Posted by StephenF10

Re the WDH, while I am a WDH user and would not be without one on my D2, to say that the inability to use a WDH on a D4 is a safety issue is open to debate.

Stephen.

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Yep, hence this one. I appreciate the input.