Thread: Performance chips> Are they worth the money???

Hi all. New to site, new Discovery owner as well. Just bought one, haven't even picked it up yet and here I am looking for ways to modify it already! First Disco ever, was a proud Navara 3lt TD owner but recently bought a big boat 3.2t and needed something better.

Dorko I'm really looking forward to your results. I'm already leaning towards the Tune It from what you've had to say and what I've read elsewhere. Do they offer the 3" exhaust for the Disco 3 as well?

Ok the results are in.

So we did many runs, stock runs, steinbaurer runs and then chipit.

Now I'm no dyno expert so don't ask me a stock D4 pulls more than 600nm, but they swear it was correct. All test were done in 3 gear to about 4000rpm and i run 19' MTR's






Dorko

Dorko,Many thanks for going to the extent you have to get background numbers !!!
Not sure if the dyno numbers are very meaningful , as the Torque numbers again are not in real NM's , its Mainlines Tractive effort calculation because again its derived from roller Rpm and Ramp rate .
(as is obvious , when the graph shows average power and torque described as average ROAD SPEED of 52 to 146 KPH ) 146 KPH ? What in 3rd gear ? !!!!!!
Some really strange things going on there !!!(Engine RPM 4000 x Gbox ratio 1.52 3rd gear x TCase ratio 1:1 x diff ratio 3.54 x tyre circumference (30 inch dia) = 107.3 KPH)
Given that the standard factory numbers of 600 NM and 180 Kw , which I presume are actually Flywheel numbers ? then the parasitics have done something extremely strange .
How does parasitics drop horsepower to 194 from 244 in HP, yet raise torque from 600nm to 822nm (this is just comparing factory specs with what the vehicle did in Standard unmodified Trim )
So from these graphs only a 3% gain in torque for the steinbauer and 13% for Chipit over what you started with .
This is another perfect example of taking absolutely nothing from the absolute numbers , and very little from the pecentages .
Dorko , I know you might find this a bit strange , but a far more accurate test would be the good old 1/4 mile dragstrip times .
Yep , see you down Kwinana Motorplex, on Whoopass Wednesdays, we will have it weighed accurately , set up a launch tactic, and shift tactics so there repeatable, and let the ET/Speed and the moroso calculator tells us the real difference .
My calculators says 2.7 tonnes or say 5800lbs with 180 KW would be
17.61@76.5 MPH
Funny how the Standard factory spec is 244HP and Chipit took it up to 246 HP , thats a ****load of parasitics !!!!!!

I spoke to ChipIt in regards to the high torque numbers and they I didn't know the operator ran it up in 3rd gear, as a result can create a higher torque result. However the HP at the wheels will be ok though, it is due to the ramp rate with torque.

So what can be taken from the dyno in any case is the Difference in power between standard to Chipped. As a result the HP increase for Chip It over standard was 25-26% on peaks.

As you can also see in the dyno print is the difference as the standard torque curve drops off & the chipped on both chips runs through much better . Also in my case the fuel economy is improved.

Yes ¼ mile drag strip is real world performance test , but so is the daily driving on the street, and part throttle & throttle response feel also, not just a full throttle dyno run. I would like to run the Disco down the drag strip, and the wifes G6ET but when work quiets off.

Unfortunately the 3rd gear Runs have made Torque readings out but the difference is still valid. This wasn't ChipIt fault as it was a independent dyno facility run by the Race Torque employees.

Dorko , Im afraid your Chipit man is telling you Porkies , or he simply doesnt know how the Dyno works . Lets say , we change the diff ratio from 3.54 to say 4.2 . or we change the tyres diameter from a 30 inch diameter to a 26 inch diameter , what do you reckon that will do for the Torque figures ?. Im pretty sure your car is a Automatic, ask the Chipit man what difference that makes , then ask whats the Flash ,Stall,lockup and % slip is doing to the TORQUE convertor. All this leads to the fact that trying to draw any conclusions about changes to torque measured on a Chassis dyno is a complete waste of time . (Torque convertors actually multiply torque !!)
The only way you can get a 1 to 1 is on a engine dyno .
A good dyno operator always asks/finds out what the final drive ratio and tyre circumference is before calibrating the dyno and suggesting the gear to run it in , because he needs to get the roller speeds within the calculation range.
So I rollup with me old WB Stato, 2.76 diff 28 inch tyres and 450HP/440ft/lb (594nm !!!!!!!)allready confirmed on the Superflo 902 engine dyno . Now lets say I did a dyno run upto 6000RPM , well at those numbers Id be doing close to 300KPH , which is way outside his allowed roller speeds , hence the need to use 2nd gear instead . Then throw in a 4200 Stally and wont believe the curve that throws !!!
PS I hope you have the factory LSD in G6ET , they were diabolical on the standard open spinner !!!!

400HPONGAS,

I think you are off the plot, seriously I do! For starters I'm no dyno expert, but have been over many dynos in different cars, in which I have zero doubt you would question every dyno print out i have had.

In regards to a good Dyno operator you would struggle to tell me one... they all specialist in the vehicles the COMPANY operators in. EG. If they do Japs, its most likely Evo's, Suburbs or Nissans. IF they do Aussie/ Americans its Ford or Holden's.

I'm not doubting your calculations as I dont know where you get them from, yet I do find it questionable. Every Dyno read can be questioned, from tyre pressure, fuel, tyres, snorkel, air filter, injectors and so on. Tell me a dyno operator that will change the settings of its machine for a run because you have a 98 octane fuel vs 95. Seriously, the main point of a dyno is;

1.) AFR's
2.) EGT's
3.) HP/ Torque gain

That said, I dont think a company like Race Torque have a incorrect dyno or have the operators that don't know how to use their own dyno machine. They are race experts in their field and can back it up with the dozens of world wide trophies in rally's and tuning awards. Just walk in there waiting room and you can see them all. Infact look at their Dyno room and you will know they are not short of a dollar, most impressive i have every seen!

I'm not sure why you are so worried about every single spec about a dyno.... seriously, regardless of the torque, the HP is near correct, if not correct and is displayed at the 'wheels' not on the fly such as Land Rover specs.

Just curious, have you ever driven a modern car which has been custom tune? Its unbelievable the difference if done properly.

Perhaps you would been keen to come done to the drags, I will do a run against you in your Disco in stock and then with the tune? Neither option will result in your D3 out perform a D4 day or night. I'm not being rude, but I struggle to see how a guy can comment so much in this field without having their own vehicle tune, yet own a D4 3L.

For me, the real comments i am looking forward to is from Gordon; He's one of few blokes to tune a D4/RRS 3L and can give us his opinion of his current tune vs chipit. Either way, I sure he will be happy with either products over stock but would be good to see his pros vs cons on products.

If you can recommend a Dyno place locally in perth, which meets all your requirements I will run my car over it. Seriously, if that what it takes to prove to you the difference in drive-ability vs power, its worth the banter.

Addition to this; if you are in Perth next let me know; you can drive my car and then tell me and everyone else your thoughts... i have zero doubt you will say it feels greater than your 3% or 13% calculation...

RE: G6ET; it doesnt have LSD as standard as its fords version of a luxury car. The car is not a track car and you would be absolute mad to waste 3K on a conversion to put a LSD in. Considering the LSD is better for track work but has zero benefits for a simple 1/4 drag.


Dorko

Originally Posted by 400HPONGAS

Dorko , Im afraid your Chipit man is telling you Porkies , or he simply doesnt know how the Dyno works . Lets say , we change the diff ratio from 3.54 to say 4.2 . or we change the tyres diameter from a 30 inch diameter to a 26 inch diameter , what do you reckon that will do for the Torque figures ?. Im pretty sure your car is a Automatic, ask the Chipit man what difference that makes , then ask whats the Flash ,Stall,lockup and % slip is doing to the TORQUE convertor. All this leads to the fact that trying to draw any conclusions about changes to torque measured on a Chassis dyno is a complete waste of time . (Torque convertors actually multiply torque !!)
The only way you can get a 1 to 1 is on a engine dyno .
A good dyno operator always asks/finds out what the final drive ratio and tyre circumference is before calibrating the dyno and suggesting the gear to run it in , because he needs to get the roller speeds within the calculation range.
So I rollup with me old WB Stato, 2.76 diff 28 inch tyres and 450HP/440ft/lb (594nm !!!!!!!)allready confirmed on the Superflo 902 engine dyno . Now lets say I did a dyno run upto 6000RPM , well at those numbers Id be doing close to 300KPH , which is way outside his allowed roller speeds , hence the need to use 2nd gear instead . Then throw in a 4200 Stally and wont believe the curve that throws !!!
PS I hope you have the factory LSD in G6ET , they were diabolical on the standard open spinner !!!!

I admit to having never even seen or used a dyno, but I would have thought that diff ratios, torque convertors, tyre sizes etc would make absolutely no difference.

The dyno measures actual power at it's roller as the vehicle is accelerated up to its peak RPM. There is presumably some way of measuring the RPM so that the dyno plots power versus RPM. Torque at any RPM is then just simple arithmetic.

Have I missed something here?

RPM is plotted on the Dyno and these dyno sheets.

See the X-axis, we stopped around the 4000rpm as this starts to red line. Max power is around 2000rpm

Dorko