Alternator Capacity

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

Take care Wilbur, your on thin ice and while others have seen your post and recommend you be band, I’ve given you one warning.

Your post had absolutely nothing to do with this thread and was nothing more than intended abuse.

Your post was way off what is acceptable/tolerable on this forum.

Again, Wilbur be warned.

OK folks, back on subject!

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Duly chastised and remoreseful, I offer this comment, which I belive to be fully relevant to the topic.

1. Ctek, Projecta, Redarc and a huge number of other manufacturers are producing multi-stage chargers. It is a world-wide thing, multi-stage chargers are becoming the norm.

2. My 1996 Jaguar has a multi-stage charger, so this movement has had plenty of time to be discredited, should discrediting be appropriate.

3. I don't know, but I would be very surprised if the D4 doesn't have a multi-stage charger. I take delivery of a new one in 4~5 weeks, and if I am not banned, I will let the forum know the answer to that.

4. Any vehicle that has a multi-stage charger requires special precautions when adding ANY auxiliary loads. Failure to do it correctly can result in anything from reduced car battery life, to mysterious bouts of flat starting battery to even having the on-board computer log a fault situation. This is true whether the auxiliary load is a driving light, a winch, a simple solenoid controlled dual battery system or a multi-stage DC-DC charger.

5. If I find that the D4 does in fact have a multi-stage charging system, and I can support this with the documentation that comes with my vehicle, I will post this here along with any warnings given by Land Rover Australia - again assuming that I am not banned, or that my posts won't be deleted.

6. I have no vested interest in any automotive products whatsoever, other than a personal love of Land Rovers.

7. Many of you have demanded that I quote reference for everything I say. It will take work to find those references as they have accumulated over many years - and are still accumulating. If I am to do this, I would be grateful if others posting here would be required to do the same.

8. I would especially be grateful if Drivesafe would quote his references for his asserion that "as low as 13.2v, and they have no problem charging all types of 12v lead acid batteries at these lower voltages,"

9. I have been asked to list my professional qualifications in electronics. If I decide to do so, can I be confident that Drivesafe and Blknight will also reveal their qialifications in electronics? Indeed, will anyone giving opinions on this site be required to list their relevant qualifications? I can't recall any such information being given to date.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

actually, I just read your original post...

I never called you stupid, I just said that sarcasm is my defence against stupid.

I've also just re-read the thread. I mentioned humour in one of my posts towards you (and at the time actually ment it as just that)

The fact that you drew the conclusion that you were called stupid was your own perception.

potentially the most insightful thing you put in this thread. I just regret that the original post was deleted so no-one else can witness you conducting a SPWOSO

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Semantics, you know perfectly well that you inferred I was stupid.

What does SPWOSO mean?

DC DC charge couplers started out as a basic way of running 12v items on 24v and 24v items on 12v dc. considering just the running of 12v stuff....

the most basic was little more than a diode rectifier with a ballast on one side to act as a dummy load, good for stuff that didnt require good voltage control (say +/-5v on 12v)

next in line was your basic regulated power supply like the ones that you used to use to charge phones from cars better on voltage regulation not so hot on constant current.

then they went switch mode.

now if you have to jump a major voltage bridge, and you cant faff with your alternator to jig it for freakyness the most efficient way of achieving the change is through a switchmode power supply.

thats why we have them...

DC-DC for 12V charging from an alternator is basically a WOFTAM. your alternator is designed to charge 12v to start with, why not let it do its job directly as opposed to through an additional device that burns up power doing it?

The main basic advantage to DC-DC chargers on 12v is they limit the current flow, great for some types of SLA batteries and allowing you to run smaller cabling because you dont have to shunt the current, but really if you want to do that you just parallel a self resetting circuit breaker and a form of current limiter in series between the positive terminals of the batteries. a little math to pick the size of the breaker and the current limiter ( I normally use a headlight bulb) and ta-ding, you've got a sub $10 steam engine tech current limiting charger Perfect for protecting wiring and slow charging SLA type batteries without removing the max voltage topping ability of the alternator.

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Originally Posted by Wilbur

Semantics, you know perfectly well that you inferred I was stupid.

What does SPWOSO mean?

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Actually I didnt, I was backing the you're poorly informed or wrong line... thats a leap you made yourself...

SPWOSO...

from MISPWOSO, the Maximillion Institute of Slowly and Painfully Working Out the Surprisingly Obvious

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Originally Posted by RRV80

If dc to dc chargers were better at charging, surely a d4 or rrs would already have one lol :wasntme: i have a n70 in the disco that is very old, a very tiny deep cycle which is also old, i use a redarc and never had any problems, and the battery in the van is always charged to, it is run from the second battery, dunno if i have it hooked up right but it works like a treat running 2 fridges all the lights and gizmos in both the car and van

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As I have posted, I believe that the D4 most likely does have multi-stage charging. I will advise in due course, if I am not banned.

Please understand that a DC - DC convertor is needed in order to provide multi-stage charging to an additional battery in an aftermarket situation. The important point is that multi-stage charging IS required. The vehicle alternator can be set up (by the manufacturer) to provide multi-stage charging FOR THE CAR BATTERY without the need for a DC - DC convertor. I believe the D4 / RRS will have done this, because LR understand the need for multi-stage charging.

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Originally Posted by Wilbur

As I have posted, I believe that the D4 most likely does have multi-stage charging. I will advise in due course, if I am not banned.

Please understand that a DC - DC convertor is needed in order to provide multi-stage charging to an additional battery in an aftermarket situation. The important point is that multi-stage charging IS required. The vehicle alternator can be set up (by the manufacturer) to provide multi-stage charging FOR THE CAR BATTERY without the need for a DC - DC convertor. I believe the D4 / RRS will have done this, because LR understand the need for multi-stage charging.

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A whole pile of assertions but no facts!?!?!

We know that D1s and D2s definitely don't have multistage chargers, so why is one suddenly needed for the D3 or D4??? - which despite all the extra electronics isn't all that different.

If a 2nd battery is added, why is a multi-stage charger suddenly needed???

I am starting to believe you might sell these devices???

Wilbur, don’t make yourself a martyr, both Dave and myself work in this field and have had plenty of hands on experience with batteries and how they work.

From your posts and you have stated as much yourself, you base your wealth of knowledge on what you have read, which is mostly advertising hype.

You have also continually posted up info you had misunderstood, as being fact.

What you have not done is post up any info that actually relates to the real world.

Read all you want, but until you actually understand what your reading, and this is not a shot at you, but you continually use info claiming one thing, when it means something totally unrelated, so your replies have to be continually corrected.

A perfect example was your reference to the different voltage setting on battery chargers. You read about it and got it completely wrong.

Again, while you continue to post up erroneous info, it’s going to get corrected.

By the way, D3, D4, RRS and RR alternators all have VARIABLE voltage operations, THIS IS NOT MULTI STAGE CHARGING and the voltage variations are again for something totally unrelated to battery charging, but this still does not stop ALL TYPES of 12v batteries from fully charging.

This is based on hands on experience and loads of feedback from many, MANY customers.

But once again, you have read something and got the reason for why it is done totally wrong.

So if your happy to be sucked in by the advertising hype that is used to sell these devices so be it, but don’t go making out people who own and/or work with these vehicles and see what REALLY happens, don’t know what they are talking about when we explain why the ad hype you have been reading is nothing but BS.

just another thought...

why would you want digitally set staged charging when you could have analog variable charging?.

what happens if you go outside the parameters of the Staged charging system?

I give up. You hurl so much abuse at me that a newbie, Braddo, page 5, comments on it, but when I try to fight back with a little of my own nastiness, you delete my post. You demand that I back up anything I say, yet you do not do so yourself.

This is no longer the forum I thought it was, so I will be leaving and post no more. You can now say what you like about me with no fears that I will respond.

Come on guys no need for it to get to this stage that people are throwing rocks hard at each other as has been happening and has led to old Wilbur feeling like he needs to leave for good.

How can a discussion over a bloody silly charging system get this out of shape.

What is it with the D3/4 section, recently Grumdriva got smashed for not agreeing with the locals now this has gone to far as well. No other section on this website has so many disagreements that end in people feeling like they should quit the website.

Drivesafe hate to say it but telling Wilbur that what he was saying was crap was what started this all going pear shaped. This website works well because of friendly and good hearted banter and the occssional ribbing between its members not people insulting each other.

Its one thing to point out that someone might have got it wrong but I think it went to far and then Wilbur felt like he needed to defend himself and the whole thing just went on from there.

So come on Mods how about calming this all down and getting everyone back on the same page and lets not lose another long term member as well as scaring the crap out of potential new members reading all this nasty tripe who then decide not to sign up because they don't want to be a member of a site with so much aggro.

cheers,
Terry