An Interesting illustration of Traction Control settings

Sorry but have to agree to disagree.

After being on a trip with multiple D3/RRS over broken terrain this was observed.

- The 3 and RRS ride nicer on rough roads/tracks.
- The D2 was simpler to operate
- The D3 suffered more underbody hits
- The D2 climbed cross up hill climbs with 4 wheels constantly on the ground whilst all the D3 and RRS picked up wheels requiring the TC and eDiffs to bail the vehicle out of every hole.
- At speed the later vehicles were quieter
- The D3s all caused the trip to be slower on the sandy tracks once we hit 50km/h :)

I have both available to use, for hard tracks the D2 wins hands down, a Defender even more so.
For faster trips and endless corrugations I'd go the D3 or later ;)
Would I want the D3 hitting objects a lot? No way, won't last long!

In the case posted above, a D1,2,Def with cdl activated would have just climbed straight over that little rock and keep going.... The D3 needed a knob twiddle to proceed. :D

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Originally Posted by Tombie

In the case posted above, a D1,2,Def with cdl activated would have just climbed straight over that little rock and keep going.... The D3 needed a knob twiddle to proceed. :D

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Isn't a D3 knob twiddle the equivalent of activating cdl!? ....I realise it does a lot more, but with TR off, doesn't the centre diff/clutch act as an open centre diff?

I have both a D1 and D3, and have to admit that driving the D1 is more fun and gives you more of a feeling of achievement. The D3 with TR is kinda cheating, it just does it all for you! :angel:

I'd def agree with the potential for damage to a D3 though, and it does seem to like lifting wheels! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Sorry but have to agree to disagree.

After being on a trip with multiple D3/RRS over broken terrain this was observed.

- The 3 and RRS ride nicer on rough roads/tracks.
- The D2 was simpler to operate
- The D3 suffered more underbody hits
- The D2 climbed cross up hill climbs with 4 wheels constantly on the ground whilst all the D3 and RRS picked up wheels requiring the TC and eDiffs to bail the vehicle out of every hole.
- At speed the later vehicles were quieter
- The D3s all caused the trip to be slower on the sandy tracks once we hit 50km/h :)

I have both available to use, for hard tracks the D2 wins hands down, a Defender even more so.
For faster trips and endless corrugations I'd go the D3 or later ;)
Would I want the D3 hitting objects a lot? No way, won't last long!

In the case posted above, a D1,2,Def with cdl activated would have just climbed straight over that little rock and keep going.... The D3 needed a knob twiddle to proceed. :D

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agree with this. A D3/D4/RRS does not run rings around a traction-control equipped Defender, and especially not one with a rear locker as well. In some situations the modern car it is better, but once you get into the real hardcore stuff the Defender still wins - clearance, gearing, ETC as well even if not quite as good. The modern cars run out of clearance real quick and are heavier. I know Land Rover are keen to say the Disco is better offroad but overall, I'm not convinced at all. Different strengths, the modern cars are really good an inching over things. While we're at it, they are not the best offroaders on the market either. That would be the Wrangler Rubicon.

Quite willing to take my Defender TD5 out and fail to drive somewhere that a D3 manages. Then we'll go do some rocky stuff ;-)

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Originally Posted by rmp

Quite willing to take my Defender TD5 out and fail to drive somewhere that a D3 manages. Then we'll go do some rocky stuff ;-)

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Quite happy to take you on Robert ;)

Should we meet in the middle?

More seriously, I'll stand by my comments. With equivalent tyres, with an experienced Def driver and an experienced D4/RRS driver, with an equivalent ambivalence to damage, in most conditions the latter will get further. There will of course, be specific tracks that will suit one over the other. This is true even between the RRS and D4.

And yes, the Rubicon is brilliant off-road. Pity it's crap at everything else.

Cheers,

Gordon

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

Quite happy to take you on Robert ;)

Should we meet in the middle?

More seriously, I'll stand by my comments. With equivalent tyres, with an experienced Def driver and an experienced D4/RRS driver, with an equivalent ambivalence to damage, in most conditions the latter will get further. There will of course, be specific tracks that will suit one over the other. This is true even between the RRS and D4.

And yes, the Rubicon is brilliant off-road. Pity it's crap at everything else.

Cheers,

Gordon

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I was wondering how long that gauntlet was going to stay on the ground….LOL!!!

What do you perceive as the differences between the RRS and D4 that you alluded to? 'Added in'...Should have mentioned, never even been in an RRS but thought that they are based on the same chassis as the D4.

I’ve been meaning to post the question…”Why did some owners choose the RRS over the D4?”

No interest in starting a wee’ing contest, just a genuine interest.

Cheers,

Kev.

Wheelbase mainly :cool:

Yes, the RRS has a shorter wheelbase, which can make it a little more untidy on some rutted hill-climbs, but more maneuverable on others and gives a better ramp-over angle.

Despite what the LR quoted figures may lead one to believe, the 3 RRS's we've had on our trips (plus my one) at super-extended height have the same clearance as the D3/4 - when fitted with the same size tyres!

Cheers,

Gordon

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Originally Posted by Tombie

I have both available to use, for hard tracks the D2 wins hands down, a Defender even more so.
For faster trips and endless corrugations I'd go the D3 or later ;)
Would I want the D3 hitting objects a lot? No way, won't last long!

In the case posted above, a D1,2,Def with cdl activated would have just climbed straight over that little rock and keep going.... The D3 needed a knob twiddle to proceed. :D

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I think that is the point.

For most owners, and I stress most, the fact that your D3 or D4 might be just a little less capable (or they are not prepared to risk the damage on tougher tracks like that last pinch on the Coberras Track in the VHC) would be significantly out weighted by the comfort and refinement you would enjoy during the 500 km drive from Sydney or 250 km from Melbourne getting to that point, and how easily and accomplished they are on 99% of the rest of the off road terrain encountered on similar trips.

As shown by some, if you are prepared to stretch a D3 /D4/RRS and risk the potential damage then in the hands of an experienced off road driver they will go almost anywhere a defender D1/D2 will go.

If you really want a vehicle to throw are very hard stuff you would probably have a second vehicle for that type of trip anyway, which seems to be the way a few people go.

For the sake of turning a knob I am pretty happy with the D3.

The only other point some seem to make, which seems to be made more in the context of "back in my day there was none of this fan-dangled electronic traction stuff" is that they make it to easy. I think they call that progress.

There is an issue if as a novice, the fancy traction control lets you get in too deep to get out. But reality dictates that most people driving their newish $70+K 4WD will rarely get it in so deep in such remote country that it will cause them anything more than embarrassment when they need to be recovered. This goes as much for top end Toyota's and Nissan's as much as Land Rovers in my mind.

I know to date I have elected not to attempt things well before I think the D3 would have stopped or I have risked damaging it to point it would fail. Also know as "fear of angering wife" I think.

George

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Originally Posted by DiscoWeb

Also know as "fear of angering wife" I think.

George

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A well-known medical condition - especially around my household :wasntme:

Cheers,

Gordon

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

A well-known medical condition - especially around my household :wasntme:

Cheers,

Gordon

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I 3rd that! ...she's even managed to wangle her own plates onto our D3, complete with pink flowers.... :mad: