The Discovery 4 is a second rate tow vehicle

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Originally Posted by garrycol

While I think you made the right choice - if you wanted German then why not a Tourag with air suspension - really very similar to a Disco in ability etc.

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That was in part my original plan. I've also got an Audi Q5, which has a wonderful 3 litre diesel. The Touareg has the same engine coupled to an 8 speed auto (which I presume is the same one as now used in the Audi Q7, and is a very nice drive). So, I waited a long time for VAG to bring the new Torareg to Oz, and I was then extremely disappointed when I had a good look at it.

Nowhere near the interior capacity of the Disco. No 3rd row of seats, and the second row don't even fold properly flat. Most models don't have low range, and are really more mums' school buses than proper offroaders. But, the thing that totally killed it for me...no proper provision for a spare tyre.

Looked at alongside the Disco (we walked from Q7, to Touareg to Disco about 20 times at the Melbourne motor show), the decision to give the LR a go became quite easy.

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Originally Posted by garrycol

John,

While I think you made the right choice - if you wanted German then why not a Tourag with air suspension - really very similar to a Disco in ability etc.

Garry

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A fair while ago there was a thread posted on here with a vid....I'm sure it was on this forum...where a D3 and a Tourag were compared in an offroad situation. It was pretty muddy and slippery.

The vid was all in German with no subtitles so I understood about 4 words......however, the results spoke for themselves...or at least appeared to. D3 spun and slipped but kept going through, time after time. Tourag got stuck every time.

I have no idea how 'fair' the comparison really was...as in driver, tyres, car spec, etc....but the Tourag did not cope at all.

Has there been any 'fair' copmparisons of these vehicles....especially against a D4?

Cheers,

Kev.

We are new to LR and I was a little concerned about the stories we have heard about buying British but I can tell you the it is the best car I have owned thus far (owned 18 cars of all makes and sizes).

We have just towed a 2.5 ton van 3000 kms over the last 3 weeks and it never missed a beat. Cruised on the highway at 100 kms head wind or no head wind. Over took slower drivers with ease. Averaged 14-15 litres / 100 kms. Handled the winding roads and always felt sure footed.

Once set up we were able to access some great 4wd tracks and dunes with ease. The satnav trace points function was very useful when you head out alone in the wilderness with a wife and baby. We always new that we could venture down the maze of tracks and get back to camp safe.

We got plenty of attention from our neighbours with their landcruisers :eek: when we were hitching up ready to head off each time. No messy WDH set ups to worry about just drop the air bags, reverse with no help from the wife (got to love the reverse camera :D), raise up to access height and then get out connect the bits and pieces.

And not to mention it looks the goods!!!!

The trouble is MC you have driven different vehicles and do buy different vehicles so you can compare them directly,many people don't do that yet still have lots to say.Many people buy a cruiser and big van having never driven anything bigger than a camry and all of a sudden they are know it alls in regards to towing and driving but simply have no idea,I'm still waiting for someone to explain how a van lifts the front wheels off the ground,200 kg's on the ball can somehow lift the front up even though there's a cast iron diesel engine,gearbox/transfer case and front diff sitting there wieghing the best part of a tonne holding it down. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

...I'm still waiting for someone to explain how a van lifts the front wheels off the ground,200 kg's on the ball can somehow lift the front up even though there's a cast iron diesel engine,gearbox/transfer case and front diff sitting there wieghing the best part of a tonne holding it down. Pat

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The concern is not that the front wheels will be lifted off the ground but that enough weight will be taken off to affect steering and braking. I agree that, in the case of a heavy 4WD, there should still be plenty of weight over the front wheels to stay safe.

Stephen.

When I get some time I am going to see how much weight I loose from the front wheels. With the van attached.

Land rover is quite clear that an equalising or other forms of WDH should not be used with a D4 when towing. The air suspension is designed to take care of the load and i would guess the computer would get pretty confuced with a WDH fitted.

They do say you need to take into account the total weight on the rear axel, which includes passenges and luggage in the back. This would obviously affect the ride if you have a few hundred kg's on the towbar and a fully ladden boot space.

This is how land rover recommends checking the weight over the front wheels for safe driving when towing heavy loads. Once you have done this once with your van or boat everything should be fine

Vehicle weights
When loading a vehicle to its maximum (GVW),
take account of the load distribution to ensure
that axle loads do not exceed the permitted
maximum values. It is your responsibility to
limit the vehicle load in such a way that neither
the maximum axle loads nor the GVW are
exceeded. The most accurate method of
determining load distribution is by using a
public weighbridge.
Nose weight must be the greater of 50 kg
(110 lb) or 7% of the actual trailer laden
weight, up to the maximum tow hitch load.
Nose weight can be measured using a

proprietary brand of nose weight indicator.

Plus

If the vehicle is loaded to the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), the nose weight
is limited to 150 kg (330 lb). If a trailer with over-run brakes is used the
nose weight can be increased up to 250 kg (550 lb) total nose weight.

However, vehicle payload

must be restricted by at least the same weight to

ensure that the GVW and rear axle weights are not exceeded. See

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS (page 263).

Even with our camper (1.4t) I notice a difference in the front, the steering can be vague and light if you don't even things out, once I put air in the bags(coilrite helper bags) it raises the rear back to even and the steering becomes better and less vague, but it is still not as good as it is without the trailer on and my ball weight is under 90kg.

You can notice that the front of the car is higher than it should be, and when you start putting air in the bags, you can see the front lower as the rear comes up, I've been towing for a long time and I can say that the most significant thing that contributes to an unstable setup is too much weight over the ball.

Keep the ball weight down and tow something that is 1 ton under your max towing capacity.

Baz.

I know what LR says about WDH not being used (because it interferes with the air suspension and one system fights against another). I have also read the thread where at least one member here (a very experienced member with respect to LR and towing) went 200 series because he wanted to use a WDH versus a D4. I am yet to understand however how the vehicle itself (by itself) can re-assert weight back to the front end with a very heavy van on, versus the weight being levered back on using a WDH - its the lever effect which surely air bags alone cannot do.

If it were possible to lever up using air bags alone to the same extent as the forces attained by a WDH then merely using poly bags on max pressure would do this, but they dont (see Redback above and my experience towing a 2 tonn boat with poly bags - restores some feel and weight to steering and brake effect of the front end, but not as good as having no weight ont he back by any means...). Having active bags does not make any difference to the mechanical force going on here, so how does air suspension restore weight over the front axle like WDH's have done for some many years. Please dont flame me with old tech...shake the head...they just dont get it. What this is about is trying to understand how it is possible for air suspension bags alone to REPLICATE OR BETTER a WDH set up.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by brad72

Land rover is quite clear that an equalising or other forms of WDH must not be used with a D4 when towing.

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Is that totally true or the handbook say something like: Caution: An equalising or other form of weight distributing hitch should NOT be used on your vehicle.

Should not and Must not have very different meanings. Should not means it is not Landrover's preferred option but it can still be used if necessary. Must not means it must never be used under any circumstances.

I don't believe Landrover has actually said that WDHs must never be used but only recommends against their use. (noting they also recommend not using any other towing gear except landrovers)

Garry