D4 Weight Measured

To my mind, the stripped-down versus safety issues will pan out differently depending on the expedition.

If I'm doing something like the CSR, I want to travel as light as possible (save fuel and not digging the vehicle out of the sand). I don't travel at night, so I don't feel the need for a bull-bar, nor a winch as I'm not travelling alone. I sleep in the car, but don't use a cargo barrier as everything is either tied down or stored under the false floor.

If I was night or dusk-travelling on sealed or unsealed roads, I would want the bull-bar, although with modern bull-bars mounted on crush cans only a few cm ahead of the front of the car, I'd still expect damage. So I'd probably go with an alloy bar to save weight.

If I was travelling alone, I wouldn't go without a winch - either a _good_ hand winch or an electric. Either one weighs roughly the same anyway, so not much to choose from in terms of weight-saving (my Tirfor + cable weighs 54kg).

Cheers,

Gordon

Re the "the stripped-down versus safety issues will pan out differently depending on the expedition"

That is fine but it is highly unlikely an individual if they have have a bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier etc fitted will take them off to make their vehicle lighter so they can take a trip across the CSR etc.

I come back to my original comment that a D3/4 is over a 2.5 ton vehicle on its own depending on what spec vehicle it is, add in a driver, bedding, water, food, cooking gear, fuel and maybe extra fuel for those long distance desert trips and chances are your Disco will be up around nearly 3 ton.
My HSE D3 with a full tank of fuel, dual battery system and me in it is 2.7 ton so getting up to 3 ton would be real easy.

If you add in a bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier and long range tank then you will be up around the maximum legal weight of 3.2 ton. But you will be carrying the fuel safely, have the spare wheel in an easily accessible spot and have the safety and convenience of a winch Bull bar.

My point is what is a couple of hundred kilo's of weight when you are already driving a vehicle that when loaded lightly plus a full fuel tank for camping is already around 3 ton? We are are talking a difference of less than 10%.



cheers,
Terry

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Re the "the stripped-down versus safety issues will pan out differently depending on the expedition"

That is fine but it is highly unlikely an individual if they have have a bull bar, winch, rear wheel carrier etc fitted will take them off to make their vehicle lighter so they can take a trip across the CSR etc.

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Why not - I used to do it all the time? For comp work etc, I'd remove the bullbar, for touring I'd put it back on. It's not hard ........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

My point is what is a couple of hundred kilo's of weight when you are already driving a vehicle that when loaded lightly plus a full fuel tank for camping is already around 3 ton? We are are talking a difference of less than 10%.

cheers,
Terry

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It can make a difference to fuel range - which was _my_ point. Similar engined vehicles across the CSR on our trip showed a difference of around 1.5 l/100km between bullbar + winch + rear bar and cars without. There might have been other (lesser) contributing factors, but I think the weight difference was the main one.

Also of course, some people are quite particular about staying under the GVM, for legal and insurance reasons.

Cheers,

Gordon

Easy to take the bull bar off but not so easy to get all the plastic and steel that it replaces from the tip and put it back on!

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobD

Easy to take the bull bar off but not so easy to get all the plastic and steel that it replaces from the tip and put it back on!

Bob

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True - forgot that I had modified the ARB bracket a little so that either the bullbar, or the plastic front bumper could be fitted relatively quickly. You can just see the extended recovery eyelets sticking out of the plastic bumper in this pic

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...2012/05/67.jpg

Cheers,

Gordon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

It can make a difference to fuel range - which was _my_ point. Similar engined vehicles across the CSR on our trip showed a difference of around 1.5 l/100km between bullbar + winch + rear bar and cars without. There might have been other (lesser) contributing factors, but I think the weight difference was the main one.

Also of course, some people are quite particular about staying under the GVM, for legal and insurance reasons.

Cheers,

Gordon

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Sounds to me if one has to take all the accepted and quite commonly purchased and bolted on off road extra's like bars/winches etc to do one of these trips legally and with decent fuel range then the D3/4 is possibly the wrong vehicle for the job.

Very few people I would guess would be prepared to take off all of their expensive off road bolt ons so they can then legally go and do a long trip into remote areas. Afterall most people actually bought the off road gear to actually one day go to those remote areas.

It would be interesting to see if you would need to strip down a similar bull bar/winch etc fitted out Defender or a diesel Patrol to be legal or get good fuel mileage.

cheers,
Terry

No amount of stripping a Patrol would give it good fuel mileage!

My son in law just weighed is stock GU with 4.2 turbo diesel with ARB bullbar and aluminium side steps and it came to 2500 kg. My D4 with all the fruit was 2740 kg and the D4 has a higher GVM I think. The only other mod he has is 5 Mickey Thomson 33 inch tyres on stock steel wheels replacing the stock tyres.

Come to think of it, I will also need to weigh my GOE 18 inch wheels and Conti Cross Contact AT 255/60/18 tyres to see how much they will add to the weight when I put them on for the trip, if anything.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Sounds to me if one has to take all the accepted and quite commonly purchased and bolted on off road extra's like bars/winches etc to do one of these trips legally and with decent fuel range then the D3/4 is possibly the wrong vehicle for the job.

Very few people I would guess would be prepared to take off all of their expensive off road bolt ons so they can then legally go and do a long trip into remote areas. Afterall most people actually bought the off road gear to actually one day go to those remote areas.

It would be interesting to see if you would need to strip down a similar bull bar/winch etc fitted out Defender or a diesel Patrol to be legal or get good fuel mileage.

cheers,
Terry

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I doubt that many vehicles set up for touring and fully loaded would actually be legal. I see countless overloaded cars of all types when touring. But I take your point that most others wouldn't go to the trouble of fitting/removing on a trip-by-trip basis.

Personally I don't feel the need for a bullbar - as I said, I don't travel at dusk or night. I don't need a rear wheel carrier - it really isn't that hard to remove the spare from under the car if you pre-prepare access to the winch bolt in the cargo area. The second spare goes on the roof. I wouldn't lambaste people for suggesting you don't need these items - I've done plenty of remote trips without them and have never felt compromised.

If you feel your circumstances mean you need them, then that's fine too.

Cheers,

Gordon

In january 1968 i drove a 1964 Mini Miner 850 from Sydney to Dampier in WA , the Nulabour was mostly sand and dirt , the road from carnavon to dampier was a nightmare of bulldust -bedrock - corrgations and flooded sections .The only off road eq i had was 2 spare wheels and a water bag & tools etc. Made it with a few minor hicups and drove to conditions ,which i believe is the secret to bush driving as opposed to fitting a lot of stuff to wiegh ones vehicle down . Just sayin .:cool:

I toured around on a motorbike for 10 to 15 years and didn't have an issue, doesn't mean it won't happen, just sayin;)

Baz.