Thread: 3.0 Turbo Reliability

Originally Posted by Graeme

It seems that my 3.0 still has an oil problem as I found the air filter again soaked in oil. I hope LR are prepared to fix it under warranty as this problem was already tried to be fixed whilst under warranty.

Graeme, you may want to think about one of these Provent 200 Oil Catch Can Diesel
I had my mechanic fit one to my new ride. He is now a convert.

Cheers, Craig

I fitted the updated turbo drain pipe today so I'll see how the smoking goes after its had a chance to clean out any oil residue. The LR technical bulletin shows 1.4 hours for the job but it took me 4 hours even leaving out the temporary disconnection of 2 hoses to allow accumlated oil to drain. It was a straight-forward task, albeit getting several good doses of dirt in the face.

Since fitting the updated drain pipe there has not been any smoke on startup and no smoke when booted after having cruised for many hours. I regard mine's smoke problem as fixed.

I've learnt something in the last 24 hours about turbos and oil seals.

Turbos don't have much in the way of seals to prevent oil from escaping to the inlet air or the exhaust side. Any pressure on the drain side including crank-case pressure caused by faulty or inadequate PCV operation will cause the oil to go out each end of the spindle. Another cause of oil escaping, typically as engine revs increase, is excessive oil flow to the turbo, possibly due to a non-existant but required flow restrictor, as discovered when my son replaced a failed genuine turbo with a copy that doesn't have an inbuilt flow restrictor. No smoke up to fast idle but give the engine a few revs and the smokescreen obliterated the view of the street!

Anyway, I'm happier now that I understand the zero pressure requirement on the drain side of the turbo and that this has been achieved for the D4 secondary turbo with the direct drain to the sump. I no longer wonder if the turbo seals are poor and could fail before a decent working life.

Originally Posted by Graeme

I've learnt something in the last 24 hours about turbos and oil seals.

Turbos don't have much in the way of seals to prevent oil from escaping to the inlet air or the exhaust side. Any pressure on the drain side including crank-case pressure caused by faulty or inadequate PCV operation will cause the oil to go out each end of the spindle. Another cause of oil escaping, typically as engine revs increase, is excessive oil flow to the turbo, possibly due to a non-existant but required flow restrictor, as discovered when my son replaced a failed genuine turbo with a copy that doesn't have an inbuilt flow restrictor. No smoke up to fast idle but give the engine a few revs and the smokescreen obliterated the view of the street!

Anyway, I'm happier now that I understand the zero pressure requirement on the drain side of the turbo and that this has been achieved for the D4 secondary turbo with the direct drain to the sump. I no longer wonder if the turbo seals are poor and could fail before a decent working life.

Yes that is exactly how they work. If anything obstructs the oil drain to the sump (for example oil backing up on a side slope or inadequate drain) then they will also start smoking.
Which I beleive is exactly the problem LR had.

But when you've removed the cause of turbo oil seals leaking, it can take some driving for the excess oil to work its way out of the intake and exhaust and for smoke to stop.
A mate bought a vehicle with a blown turbo and had to drill a drain hole in the muffler to get the oil out!

Is there any information on when this was cured for the 3 Litre Twin turbo's, i have a August 2010 build, so wondered if the mods were done before then, or do i have a potential chain smoker on my hands, and if yes i will be asking LR to explain why they did not change it within the warranty period.. as i did pick up excessive smoke within the first year

Thanks

Jim

after reading TSB i will be asking a Land Rover dealer in North Sydney who i purchased the vehicle from and reported the excessive smoke two years ago why did they dismiss this

Originally Posted by zilch

Is there any information on when this was cured for the 3 Litre Twin turbo's, i have a August 2010 build, so wondered if the mods were done before then, or do i have a potential chain smoker on my hands ...

I wonder about this myself. The document posted by Graeme applies to D4 2010 onwards (vin AA501078 onwards), RRS 2010 onwards (vin AA212145 onwards) and RR 2013 onwards (vin DA000012 onwards). So my take on that is that it is not cured.

The cause of the problem is identified clearly within the document.

Cause: Ineffective oil drain system.

Make you wonder why you have to complain to have it addressed when LR have identified it as an ineffective design.

IIRC the direct drain wasn't factory fitted until late 2012.