Thread: Thinking of trading in the Discovery 3 for a new Defender

Originally Posted by ozscott

If we had the challenge is Qld and I couldn't get you RR stuck on the beach I would stretch to Tassie beers...
Cheers

Tassie beer?? Why didn't you say so!! Now if you could just pay to get my RRS over there I promise I'll try to get it stuck ....................

Seriously, I said I had a few opinions regarding D4 (or D3) versus the Puma offroad and suddenly I'm the target for a deranged (pun intended) Deefer 110 owner (sorry Ben!) and a Deeferless D2 driver??!! That seems to be a lot of presumption on your parts .....

If we try to be grown up about it for a moment, they're very different vehicles, meant for very different markets. The Defender is the most rugged and utilitarian vehicle LR make. The D4 is the best all-round performer LR make. They overlap is in that they are both good off-roaders. If you're _only_ talking about offroad ability, ie not bush-ability, not cost, not modification ease, on-road manners, load capacity, towing etc, there still are both strong and weak points on either side.

First and foremost, a Puma comes off the showroom floor with decent offroad tyres. Nothing else. In some markets you can order your D4 with better than the crap highway tread, but few do, or even know that they can. So put your average showroom D4 against a showroom Puma in a muddy hill-climb, and it's no surprise which one will make it look easier. A Puma has better approach, departure and ramp-over angles, although a D4 in emergency height is pretty close in terms of the latter. A Puma has greater wheel articulation in the front wheels, not much in it in the rear with the D4 in Rock-Crawl. A Puma also has higher side sills, nice and out-of the way. Combine all that and it's pretty easy to see that without too much difficulty, one could find tracks that would favour a Puma over a D4.

On the D4 side though, lets assume a knowledgeable driver has had decent off-road rubber fitted. The Terrain Response system will provide much greater traction than the Puma's ETC and anti-stall, especially if turning or on lock. TR will provide much better torque delivery too, allowing a D4 to run away from a Puma on sand climbs. A D4 has greater under-diff clearance, so doesn't get hung up on high centre ridges as easily. A D4 has a much better turning circle, so can be maneuvered through obstacles more easily in situations where it's greater wheelbase doesn't get in the way. Again, it's pretty easy to see that without too much difficulty, one could find tracks that would favour a D4 over a Puma.

In summary, the trick is to drive the terrain such that you don't ground the car. And as long as neither car is grounded by the terrain, the TR systems will see the D4 go further, assuming equivalent tyres and a driver that knows how to use the system.

That's the reason why the LR engineers were so keen to put the TR system into a Defender, but the mass of accompanying sensors and electrics meant they had to wait until a new base platform was available. Hence why the T5 is the favoured base for the new Defender - it's already developed to take TR. The DC100 has all the off-road advantages of both the Puma AND the D4, which should make it the most able off-roader ever made by LR.

TR will allow the complete novice to traverse quite challenging terrain, provided they read up on it first. I think a lot of seasoned off-roaders resent that but really, the more people take their new LR's offroad, the more LR will continue to support it.

Cheers,

Gordon

yes Terry, it will be a hard choice, but I've come full circle now and I'm quite looking forward to getting a T5 defender. Mind you, I'll be getting the factory fitted cappacino machine mounted in the dash. That way, while bogged up to the door sills, I'll be entertained while waiting for a strong-armed series driver to pull me out.