Thinking of trading in the Discovery 3 for a new Defender

**scarry** · 18th February 2013, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by DiscoWeb

For what it is worth in this debate/discussion/arguement

My point is that in my experience, for the vast majority of 4wding most people will do the D3 and or D4 will get you as far and in some cases further than a Defender straight out of the box and do it slightly easier.

No doubt in my mind, once kitted out the Defender will get you further and deeper than a D3 but that must represent less than 1% of the 4wd most people do.

Regards,

George

Been out with my D4 and the sons Puma many times.The Puma does have KM2's,and a 40mm lift.D4 is stock with A/Ts.

Point them both up a steep rocky rutted hill,and the D4 does it the easiest.Take the wrong line to make things difficult,the Puma will often go no further where the D4 keeps on going.

But the Puma does have much better approach and departure angles,which is very handy at times,although it does have diff pumpkins that can hang it up.

The D4 body is also more vulnerable to damage

,whereas the body on the Puma sits higher up and also has the straight body panels.

And for the people that don't like Traction Control,the Puma recently had a fault which caused the TC not to operate.It definitely went further in the rough stuff with the TC on.

This may also have been more noticeable,because our driving styles were used to the TC operating.

And as for those deep water crossings,the D4 seems to chicken out,where the Puma trundles through no worries

**manic** · 18th February 2013, 07:38 PM

That is a worthy obstacle! Would love to see a video of a D3 going up that?

**TerryO** · 18th February 2013, 10:05 PM

I'd like to see the clip of the D3 going up it nearly as much as the one with the Defender not getting up it. ...

In the 'General Chat' part of this forum there is an interesting thread very similar to this one. One of the posters put up the old video clip of the RRS and D3 going up that very steep rock at Moesgatle. After many previous comments about how good the Defenders are off road there was near stunned silence from the Defender brigade when the D3 clip went up with bugger all reply.

So I put the clip of a Defender not getting up more than a third of the way even after a run up of the same very steep rock and then bunny hopping backwards down it out of control.

Again hardly any comment and this was after pages of comments bout how the Defender is superior off road in the rough stuff to late model Disco's. below is a link to the thread which is titled Disco v Defender for those that are interested. It makes for some interesting reading in sections.

Disco vs. Defender?

Cheers,
Terry

**Naks** · 18th February 2013, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by TerryO

I'd like to see the clip of the D3 going up it nearly as much as the one with the Defender not getting up it. ...

Jah, unfortunately by then it was already 5pm and everyone's cameras had run flat. We'd been on the trail since 10am.

The D3 took about 20-25min to get up. The Puma tried for about the same amount of time before giving up.

Edit: a picture has surfaced on our club's FB page:

**ozscott** · 19th February 2013, 07:40 AM

Look I think it can be said that they are very different vehicles. Its hard to beat the ETC of the D3/4 straight out of the box for slow and steady and getting there in the end. However the Deefer is much more able to be tricked up - it is the perfect vehicle for that with endless options and cheap but good bits from all over the world. A set of lockers (f and r) and a lift and big tyres and they just keep going. Remember too here the Deefer is about half the price of a D3/4 so plenty of coin to build an amazing off road machine that wont be embarrassed by any vehicle.

But in a stock deefer v stock D3/4 good traction control will beat outdated traction control, once traction is lost...now in a Deefer traction will usually be lost later than in a D3/4 due to the articulation that the Deefer has - but again when its lost on the Deefer, and already lost on the D3/4 it stands to reason that the Deefer will not do as well on the crawl up axle twisters because its let down in comparison by the ETC. Some of that can be militated by higher speed in the deefer without damage, but that is not always possible as you know.

Interestingly it seems to me from reading on here and from what I have seen that the traction control in the D2 is better than in the Deefer. I just dont understand why the Deefer's is dumbed down, as it is the same system as the D2, but perhaps it has to do with driver perception and the fact that deefer drivers generally are resistant to electronics kicking in off road.

Cheers

PS. I notice that no-one is comparing Deefer and D3/4 in very soft sand, especially towing, with their tires as far down as they reasonably can go.

**Naks** · 19th February 2013, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by ozscott

PS. I notice that no-one is comparing Deefer and D3/4 in very soft sand, especially towing, with their tires as far down as they reasonably can go.

Even in sand the D4 runs rings around the Defender.

We had a training session from LR Experience a few years ago and they brought a brand new D4 with HT tyres from the showroom. Even without deflating, it still beat everything else in the dunes - Td5, Puma, 90, 110, 130, D2, you name it!

At one point, to show off, the chap even did a dune in reverse!

**ozscott** · 19th February 2013, 05:29 PM

Interesting man! I know they go well on dunes compared to Deefers because of the sheer grunt. But in deep soft sand on the flat like our beaches and beach entrances there are plenty of write ups in magazines and on this very aulro site about problems towing and without load - its only the wheels and weight mind you. No diffs to drag is good. Pretty soon people will swing in and tell me the D3/4 with 19-20 inch tyres in sand and the anit-yaw turned off is the best thing since sliced bread so I wont say anything more!

Cheers

PS Im heading to stradbroke island towing the camp trailer again soon - I will see the usual defenders, Disco 1 and 2's, RRC's and even several series landrovers. Never seen a D3/4 there. If I do I will take a pic and post it!!!

**gghaggis** · 19th February 2013, 06:13 PM

... and no matter how many times others tell you how good they are in sand, you'll still pop up with that old line. Give it a break - it was a long time ago, when D4's were young and people knew not what they were doing.

Except for that extra-soft, super-special piece of sand that only you can tow through though, none of us can manage that

Cheers,

Gordon

**ozscott** · 19th February 2013, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by gghaggis

... and no matter how many times others tell you how good they are in sand, you'll still pop up with that old line. Give it a break - it was a long time ago, when D4's were young and people knew not what they were doing.

Except for that extra-soft, super-special piece of sand that only you can tow through though, none of us can manage that

Cheers,

Gordon

Hahha...you know that piece of sand too.

Cheers

**ozscott** · 19th February 2013, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by gghaggis

... and no matter how many times others tell you how good they are in sand, you'll still pop up with that old line. Give it a break - it was a long time ago, when D4's were young and people knew not what they were doing.

Except for that extra-soft, super-special piece of sand that only you can tow through though, none of us can manage that

Cheers,

Gordon

Oh dear...as recent as 4 months ago people still dont know what they are doing..http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/...sand-help.html

DSC off tyres way way down...what are they doing wrong cause it couldn't be the car. Must be the driver! Ohh...he is very experienced... As long as it is recognised that as excellent as the d4 is on road and as competent as it is off road it doesnt do everything off road as well a Deefer or for that matter older lighter discos with higher profile tyres and smaller rims we have no disagreement in the end. Happy days!

Cheers

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