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How many Toyota's have you owned?,maybe you should buy a new one and drive across the interior with it and see how far it goes on standard tyres and suspension and how well your back is after a week.I find it ironic that LCOOL is a closed forum also,I bet many Tojo owners look here,funny how they don't want anyone over on their site,maybe they don't want Joe average to see the real cost of Toyota ownership. PatQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA
Quote:
Sounds like you're on the wrong forum!!!
Funny, I thought everything I wrote was in answer to the question of why you don't see D3 D4 out in the bush and I tried to be balanced and factual.Quote:
Give it a rest mate
Could the posters who suggest I am on the wrong forum etc please explain to the poster then why D3 D4 are NOT seen in the bush and also why they sell so relatively poorly compared to other 4X4 and soft roaders in the same price range? eg X5, Jeep Grand Cherokee when the magazines etc say they are the best and they have won so many awards? And of course they have a very loyal band of owners .
I really don't think my LR qualifications can be too much in doubt except to D3 D4 owners .LOL. I think I annoy the president of one of the major Marque clubs also when I say that LR doesn't give a damn about Australia when they provide cars unsuited to Australia. Why can't they design brakes that fit 17 inch wheels? Why can't they offer long range tanks? and (I note they do in the new Range Rover). Funny but Toyota do these things.
Maybe I am a masochist but I have owned 3 RRCs and now a D2 and I do all my own maintenance and repairs. I looked at buying a D3 when I bought the D2 , but the "contingent liability" aspect always stopped me as the problems that they have when out of warranty can be very expensive. Maybe I am harping on it, but the idea of taking the body off a car to do otherwise minor repairs is just ludicrous to me. It's not the electronics , but the mechanical bits that give trouble.
Hey but it would be a dull old world if we all agreed.
Regards Philip A
To me you sound like someone from 4WDA or MySwag, or Overlander, I just figured why are you here if you like Toyota so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA
As for the body off thing, apparently it works out cheaper to take the body off, instead of dismantling half the engine bay to get at things, I think I'll worry about this stuff when it happens.
If you didn't buy a car on things you heard, you would be riding a push bike.
Anyway I love our D4, and so far has been great, 70,000ks in 2yrs, with any luck it will stay that way.
Baz.
Phillip,my mate owns a 200 series,he also owns a '92 D1,he had the steering rack replaced,a recall as they were faulty,Toyota took the body off to do that job,he also had the turbo's and turbo pipes replaced,another recall and the body came off,twice.People critisise what they don't understand and the body off is nothing more than reversing the assembly procedure,the vehicles are designed that way. Pat
This topic can go round in circles all day long because different people have different ways of measuring what is good and or bad.
You can't compare a X5 to a Disco, both have quite different capabilities, X5 owners never go off road, you hardly ever see them towing Caravans and if they are then they are small vans. Basically they are a city vehicle and they only have five seats. Plus they have little carrying room in the boot area, great for mum and the shopping but not so good for that long distance holiday with the family across the red centre don't you reckon?
Yes the new Grand Cherokee is a serious option, except its the size of a RRS, so has a tiny boot in comparison, only has five seats and the reason it sells so well is it is only roughly 60% of the price of a comparable spec Disco. You can buy a GC for $49,950 drive away at the moment, no Disco even the most basic entry level one comes within kooee of that.
Disco's are big, expensive to buy and unless you buy a top of the line model they are very basic for their price. But as an all rounder they are quite amazing and for someone who wants to go pretty seriously off road in a standard vehicle, or tow a 3.5 ton caravan easily on any surface, or sit 7 adults comfortably or just do city driving in comfort there is no equal.
The price is what stops most people from considering them, if they were 20k cheaper per model they couldn't make them fast enough I truly believe. So if they fail anything it is the cost test because the number of people who are prepared to even consider buying a new middle of the range $90,000 vehicle in this country to take off road is very small indeed.
The reason I say price is the major factor on who sells what is that Jeep has an even worse name out there for reliability than Land Rover yet they are selling heaps of them because they are good value for the price.
The almost ironic thing is Phillip, many people today don't think of Discoverys as an option becuse of the bad name the brand got because of the D2.
The very model you own because you think they are more reliable than a D3/4.
I still don't think they can make them fast enough Terry. And of those that are willing to shell out the extra readies, only a very few actually want its off-road capability....they want other aspects of this vehicle that it does so very well. Which in a nut shell, explains why you see so few of them off-road.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryO
And yes, your last comment made me laugh my arse off....it was the D3 onwards that has started rescuing the Brand from the reliability woes of earlier vehicles. :D
Of course the self sustaining ill informed or intentional urban myths keep the rumours alive and well. God so many people hate LRs....I love it, makes me wet myself!!!
"Mataranka mechanic who works on everything but of course mainly Toyota".
They too require maintenance and repairs, NOT just because the percentage is higher it would seem.
Yes as I said I am a masochist. I don't think it was the D2 that gave the bad rep it was the 38A, RRC and D1. The D2 is the last iteration of the RRC floorplan and has much better electrics and electronics than the previous models . Mainly because most is Bosch or Japanese as used by BMW.Quote:
The almost ironic thing is Phillip, many people today don't think of
Discoverys as an option because of the bad name the brand got because of the
D2.
The very model you own because you think they are more reliable than a
D3/4.
Just to be clear . I don't think the D2 is more reliable than a D3, and is most probably less reliable due to age.
However most things that go wrong with a D2 can be worked on and fixed by a home mechanic or a workshop without special equipment like high roof and lifts. One is not totally at the mercy of a specialist or dealer if something goes wrong out of warranty.
Nothing wrong with a D3 or D4 if you have extended warranty and roadside assistance but that all adds to the cost of ownership.
Regards Philip A
Correction. They used to come bottom in the JD Power surveys. Not anymore:Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA
Quote:
Whitley, Coventry - 24 May 2013 Jaguar is the number one automotive brand in the UK, according to data collated in the Vehicle Ownership Satisfaction Survey (VOSS) and Land Rover is one of the most improved brands in 6th place and entering the top ten list of manufacturers for the first time.
Land Rover has shown consistent steady improvement in the survey climbing to 6th place from 12th in 2012 and 14th place in 2011.
The Land Rover Discovery was the best performing nameplate for Land Rover up 29 places and coming top of its class for reliability.
http://newsroom.jaguarlandrover.com/en-gb/jlr-corp/news/2013/05/jlr_jd_power_what_car_240513/
As has been mentioned, Land Rover's poor reputation for reliabilty largely stems from the P38A/Discovery II era.
Philip, I agree with this bit of your post to a point. You may have seen my thread where I'm rebuilding a D3, so my familiarity with what's under the skin of a D3 may be a little more in depth than your average owner. But what I have seen and experienced so far, is that there is little difference, just the tools (and the "tool" holding the tool :D) need to be smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA
However, the complexity does mean that a number of roadside repairs are unachievable, you wouldn't be able to do a roadside head gasket change like Mike_ie did on his Isuzu. But with a little bit of preparation and enhancement to ensure that the known weak points are covered, I don't think there should be any barrier to taking a D3/4 anywhere remote.