Towbar Height

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Tombie, chances are in every State and Territory in Australia there is some kind of law, if not multiple laws, that nearly anyone at any time no matter what they are doing can get charged with.

But that's not really the point here, all I'm asking is to be shown the proof of where LR says it is illegal, namely an offence, for a D3/4 or RRS to tow more than a 1000 kg off road?

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I'm unsure where LR says its an offence... But it is an offence under law to tow outside manufacturers spec...

And here is the law component:

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Maximum Trailer Mass
Throughout Australia, the allowable maximum mass for the trailer is either the capacity of the tow vehicle’s towing attachment or the towing limit specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the towing vehicle, whichever is the least.
OR
If the vehicle’s manufacturer has not made a recommendation as to the towing mass, then the following rules apply:

A vehicle may tow a laden trailer of up to one and a half times the unladen mass of the tow vehicle, provided that the towbar is rated accordingly and the trailer is fitted with brakes that comply with the requirements stipulated in the Australian Design Rule ADR38.

If the trailer is not fitted with brakes, then the maximum mass must not exceed the unladen mass of the motor vehicle. The unladen mass of the vehicle can be found in the vehicle’s handbook, or check with your dealer.

All trailers with a GTM exceeding 750kgs must have brakes.

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As Land Rover specify a towing mass when 'off-road' (the bit that requires definition) this renders towing anything over 1,000kg (as specified by LR) as illegal on public, commonwealth etc land where the definition of 'off road' is met.

So the better argument - What is the definition of Off road?

My interpretation is that as the 1000kg is stated for when using over-run brakes, fitting of electric brakes provides an escape from the limitation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Tombie, chances are in every State and Territory in Australia there is some kind of law, if not multiple laws, that nearly anyone at any time no matter what they are doing can get charged with.

But that's not really the point here, all I'm asking is to be shown the proof of where LR says it is illegal, namely an offence, for a D3/4 or RRS to tow more than a 1000 kg off road?

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In regards to private property, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it would be a civil matter and the owner of the property would be liable.

I'm pretty sure it's in the manual Terry, as Tombie has stated, this has me thinking now, might have a look in our D4 manual tonight.

Baz.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

I'm unsure where LR says its an offence... But it is an offence under law to tow outside manufacturers spec...

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Again this only applies on public roads, whether they be hard top or dirt, there are lots of places where road rules do apply so that is something to be mindful of. However the advice I have been given is it is not an offence (illegal) to tow outside the manufacturers either recommended or stated weight limit where the road rules don't apply.

Again off road is where the road rules do not apply and the statement was that it is illegal to tow more than 1000 kg off road.

Also I agree with Graeme on what the manual says about brakes. But that is another discussion.

Regarding Barry's comment in his latest post on this, yes I believe you are correct about it being a potential civil matter if something goes wrong on a persons property as it always has been the case, but again this does not make it illegal.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Again this only applies on public roads, whether they be hard top or dirt, there are lots of places where road rules do apply so that is something to be mindful of. However the advice I have been given is it is not an offence (illegal) to tow outside the manufacturers either recommended or stated weight limit where the road rules don't apply.

Again off road is where the road rules do not apply and the statement was that it is illegal to tow more than 1000 kg off road.

Also I agree with Graeme on what the manual says about brakes. But that is another discussion.

Regarding Barry's comment in his latest post on this, yes I believe you are correct about it being a potential civil matter if something goes wrong on a persons property as it always has been the case, but again this does not make it illegal.

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Originally Posted by Tombie https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...016/08/768.jpg
I'm unsure where LR says its an offence... But it is an offence under law to tow outside manufacturers spec...

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This would make it illegal, just as if you changed the manufacturers spec of the vehicle, Police pull you over, defect the car because you have changed the manufacturers spec, which is illegal, yes/no??

Baz.

Barry, this whole merry go round discussion started here when you said the following;

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Originally Posted by Redback

That part I get Terry, but what is considered OFFROAD, is the Birdsville Track offroad and if a gazetted road is not classed as offroad, then any track in any area in Australia marked on a map is not offroad.

This means if you pull off the road with a van over 1000kg attached to your 4WD, it's now illegal:eek:

Because you are now OFF the ROAD:cool:

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I than asked where it says its illegal and you went on to say in the LR Manual.


Again sorry but I believe your comment is incorrect and misleading, I rang a lawyer that I know well yesterday arvo after further comments by you and Tombie defending the point that it is illegal.

This guy specialises in these kinds of traffic and also criminal cases and he said that it is not illegal (namely an offence) to tow a trailer over the manufacturers stated weight limit off road, because once truly off road then road laws don't apply so it's not an offence thus it's not illegal.

And he said it would be highly unlikely that any manufacturers manual would state that something is illegal. That is up to governments through laws to say what is legal and what is not.

My point in all this is you keep saying and defending the point that it is illegal. Where is the proof that the act you talk about is illegal?

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Originally Posted by Redback

This would make it illegal, just as if you changed the manufacturers spec of the vehicle, Police pull you over, defect the car because you have changed the manufacturers spec, which is illegal, yes/no??

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Changing something on your vehicle does not necessarily make driving it in public illegal. Its normally only illegal to drive a vehicle on public property that does not comply with our regulations at the time it was first registered. Driving a D4 with with a bull bar fitted is not illegal as long as the bull bar complies with regulations even though LR have placed a sticker under the bonnet stating that non-LR approved bars should not be fitted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Redback

This would make it illegal, just as if you changed the manufacturers spec of the vehicle, Police pull you over, defect the car because you have changed the manufacturers spec, which is illegal, yes/no??

Baz.

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Hence the bold, only asking Terry, my original question was;

What is the definition of OFFROAD or Who's definition is correct??

I've never really gotten an answer to this question, is it one of these grey areas??

Mmmm merry-go-round you say:whistling:

That's it from me, got my answer.

Baz.

It says "over-run" brakes - are they the same as electric brakes controlled from within the vehicle?

Legal requirements
To ensure the safety of yourself and other road users, you must abide by the laws governing the towing of trailers. These are:
• the vehicle and trailer must comply with all relevant registration requirements;



Towing vehicle
In the interests of reliability and safety, follow these rules and conditions:
Ensure that the lower of the following is not exceeded:
• the maximum towing capacity of the motor vehicle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer; or
• the capacity of the towing apparatus fitted to the vehicle.
Note: This information can be obtained from the owner’s manual or the manufacturer. If the motor vehicle manufacturer has not specified a maximum towing capacity or it cannot be identified, the following is taken to be the maximum towing capacity for the purposes of the above:

This is from the qld safe towing guide... If the question the max weight of trailers they'll be referring to the owner's manual...

From some googling Over run brakes are definitely different from electric brakes.