D4 standard 19" rims/tyres

I guess it's like the problems we used to have at press launches with R100 BMWS when I was marketing Manager.

I used to have to get the mechanic to check all the wheels at every stop after being on a dirt road, as the suspension was so absorbent that the journalists would ride so fast they would bottom the suspension "HARD"and bend wheels. Maybe that is the same reason that D4 s bend wheels, but the driver should be aware of the limits of the car.

But its not that wise to travel at warp speed even in a D4 on dirt as some surprises can come up very quickly and the laws of Physics stay the same in a D2 or D4. The reason that Prados don't thrash as well on a dirt track is that they are a compromise and very conservatively designed.

That is why they are relatively so much more reliable than D3/D4s. Toyota certainly has the resources to develop a full air suspension but they never have .

I have to say in defence of "old "tech however that I have never found the fact that a D2 with springs doesn't corner as flat as a D4 a problem. On roads like the Alpine Way, I have no problem at all in keeping up with D3 and D4 when travelling in convoy. Maybe out of some uphill corners I have to use a lower gear .

What I am trying to say is that at speeds where the "speed brake" does not dig fingers into ones thigh and say pointedly "slow down" there is little difference . It's only when you are going too fast for comfort or sense that the delights of a D4 become evident.

As the D4 bloke who trashed a tyre and broke a rear quarter window said after the Pinnibar track. How am I going to tell my wife? She will go ballistic!
Regards Philip A

Adding to that I've always run standard vehicles,it's supprising how well a defender points and turns when it isn't burdened with half an ARB store hanging off it,saying that no coil sprung vehicle will touch an EAS Land Rover on a long outback crossing,the L322 was stable regardless of speed,40 or 140,that sucker was planted,composed and angelic. Pat

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Originally Posted by Epic pooh

I'm like you Jon, everyone is faster than me offroad ! I just go at a comfortable speed - respect for passengers, tyres and the vehicle generally. I often **** people off with my slow offroad speed I think. I used to go a lot faster in my older LR's and Yotas ... but I think age may also have something to do with it too ;)

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Hmmm, and you don't have problems with the 19"s offroad? Coincidence? ;)

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

Compare this with over Christmas/new Year when on the Range Rover Club trip to Geehi, 2 D4s lost 19 inch Wranglers in 2 days. Of course there is the bloke in the Range Rover Club who destroyed 11 Coopers on 18s on his way to Darwin from Sydney so 18s are not a panacea.

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I understand what you're saying and don't really disagree, but I know what those tracks were like over Christmas. I spent a couple of days quietly cruising around them on my 19"s without any problems. They were certainly rough, but they weren't tyre breakers. To me it's more to do with the construction than size. Whilst Mr Pooh seems to be having a good run with his Wranglers I don't think they are up to that sort of usage. However I wouldn't hesitate to take my 19"s with LTZs back there. What I would say is they are less forgiving if you stuff things up.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

To me it is just another or maybe the main signifier of the lack of importance that LR gives to Australia and why they lost the genuine offroad market to Toyota.
Regards Philip A

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I just don't think they really get Australia and that's not just to do with tyres. They don't seem to understand how we use our vehicles out here and just how harsh this environment is. I think they would really benefit by sending a couple of engineers out here to experience it first hand - without the back-up they seem to have on their "expeditions".

Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

What I am trying to say is that at speeds where the "speed brake" does not dig fingers into ones thigh and say pointedly "slow down" there is little difference . It's only when you are going too fast for comfort or sense that the delights of a D4 become evident.

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Until something goes wrong....

Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Adding to that I've always run standard vehicles,it's supprising how well a defender points and turns when it isn't burdened with half an ARB store hanging off it

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Geez Pat, I hope you're not suggesting all those accessories aren't necessary. How would ARB survive?

Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by jon3950

I just don't think they really get Australia and that's not just to do with tyres. They don't seem to understand how we use our vehicles out here and just how harsh this environment is. I think they would really benefit by sending a couple of engineers out here to experience it first hand - without the back-up they seem to have on their "expeditions".



Cheers,

Jon

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You mean like all the remote area testing they did/do in Australia, and South Africa?

Consider this... They get it... It's most Aussies that don't...

We make "hot and dusty" seem like it's the only rough environment.
Frozen well below zero, Icy, slippery, muddy, salty is as tough if not more so.

Overloading is prevalent in Australia - very much so... Vehicles running constantly at or above GVM...

Like an engine - it has a red line. You can run right up there all the time, same for GVM. But don't expect it to be like something that's driven mid range (or hardly tows).

Aussies seem to expect to bolt 1+ tonne on, lift it, big rubber, overload the inside, hook a load on the arse and then flog it mercilessly in 43? heat at 100km/h plus over the roughest tracks they can find...

And then complain when it needs additional servicing and maintenance. :)

Another prime example is Aussies desire for 3500kg Caravans... Nowhere else do you see such monolithic examples of obese vans being tugged around.
Built using old techniques and technologies resulting in such ridiculous weights...

For those, Iveco etc are more suited...

And we keep flattering ourselves... Australian market is almost ZERO of global sales...

If you had a business which audience would you target as prime?

well to stick my 2c in too to the original question...

If I had the cash for GOE rims, there'd be no hesitation.

having said that, I had found the 19 Zeons comfortable on and off road. But I did need a replacement in Alice after the Mereenie Loop Rd, and it still took a week for the cooper dealer to get it in, and that was expressed couriered from Adelaide. He said no problem with 18s. I would'nt have considered Alice would've been that far flung no to carry at least something in that size - but not a single store had one. (well, except a 2nd hand worn out Wrangler)

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Originally Posted by Tombie

You mean like all the remote area testing they did/do in Australia, and South Africa?

Consider this... They get it... It's most Aussies that don't...

We make "hot and dusty" seem like it's the only rough environment.
Frozen well below zero, Icy, slippery, muddy, salty is as tough if not more so.

Overloading is prevalent in Australia - very much so... Vehicles running constantly at or above GVM...

Like an engine - it has a red line. You can run right up there all the time, same for GVM. But don't expect it to be like something that's driven mid range (or hardly tows).

Aussies seem to expect to bolt 1+ tonne on, lift it, big rubber, overload the inside, hook a load on the arse and then flog it mercilessly in 43? heat at 100km/h plus over the roughest tracks they can find...

And then complain when it needs additional servicing and maintenance. :)

Another prime example is Aussies desire for 3500kg Caravans... Nowhere else do you see such monolithic examples of obese vans being tugged around.
Built using old techniques and technologies resulting in such ridiculous weights...

For those, Iveco etc are more suited...

And we keep flattering ourselves... Australian market is almost ZERO of global sales...

If you had a business which audience would you target as prime?

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I actually agree with what you are saying here. They get the big bits right, its just some of the details that let them down. I am thinking more of their consistent use of substandard materials (eg I am about to have to get my second dashboard replaced), fuel tanks that are not big enough and the innappropriate choice of rim sizes. No matter how much we defend it, with the current choice of tyres available, 19" rims are not the ideal size for a touring vehicle.

A couple of weeks of hot weather testing is no substitute for living with these vehicles long term in this environment. Whether this market is worth it or not is a different argument.

Cheers,
Jon

Jon, what's happened to your dash?

It's strange.. Bridgestone tech department is working on the 19" range so fingers crossed...

Next thing would be to look at getting a brake company to make 2 callipers suited to the D4 with a design allowing that couple of mm clearance which is all that's needed to run 18s

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Next thing would be to look at getting a brake company to make 2 callipers suited to the D4 with a design allowing that couple of mm clearance which is all that's needed to run 18s

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It's been done. Now all we need is an AU automotive engineer to certify it for Australia.

BRAKES KIT FOR WHEELS 17 “D4 E RRS10 | MUDTECH 4?4