LandRover build quality

Here is something many of you might consider if you are thinking of upgrading your current LR.

Just after Christmas, I had a return customer fitting another one of my kits to his new ( second ) D4.

He was telling me he was already looking at another make, because, like most D4 owners, while he loved his first D4, he and his wife were fed up with failures and decided it just wasn't worth the cost of keeping the D4 once the warranty ran out.

While getting his last service before his warranty ran out, he mentioned his displeasure with the reliability of his D4 and that he was looking at replacing it with another make.

The dealership secured the sale of a new D4 by offering him a free two year extension to the 3 year factory warranty.

So if you are interested in upgrading, demand that they give you a 5 year "FACTORY" warranty.

If I was so unhappy with the reliability of my vehicle, I don't reckon I'd be persuaded to purchase another with the addition of extra "factory" warranty.

Hi RHS, and he didn't tell me what other make he was looking at, but as he put it, while repair costs were being covered by the warranty, he could put up with the problems as he, as I posted, loved the D4.

I was in the same position, that I was happy to put up with the faults and failures, as I was supposed to have had a new car warranty.

In my case, the LR warranty wasn't worth the paper it was written on, and as my RR literally began falling apart on the production line, having no warranty meant I have a $170,000 4x4 that can not be used on road, let alone trying to take it off road, which is what I bought it for.

When people make fictitious statements like, "Land Rover get excellent results for safety stats" when the exact opposite is the case. It is not until LR owners themselves, start to FORCE Land Rover to make safer products, LR is just going to continue with the same old same old.

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Originally Posted by PAT303

It's only funny if you don't own a Toyota,D4D owners joke about the first D stands for detonation,the second D for denial when they make a warranty claim. Pat

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Yes... the issue that is well known though, is that Toyota used two brands of injector, and one caused in various cases engine failures.

Eventually Toyota changed the injector design or supplier, and hence fixed the problem. It did take them quite a long time to do so, though ... Toyota is not famous for being fast to respond to an engine issue.

My wife's RX350 had a drive train noise. My wife could not hear it, but I could, under light engine load, the noise was there - I did not like it. Lexus replaced the CV joint ... they had to pull the engine out to do so. The Lexus is well made IMO and regularly tops quality and customer satisfaction ratings. Lexus said the early RXs could get that issue, but on late ones it was rare. But it did happen to my wife's RX 350, and the vehicle was not heavily driven ...

IMO the Germans only build cars to last for 10 years ... especially the high volume sellers. the gorgeous new C class Mercedes here even have mis-aligned panels, and some have wiring looms hanging loose under the dash ...

Back to Toyota - its 200 series 4.5 litre V8 diesel also had reliability problems (and some say they still do), and if one buys a used 200 series diesel, then people don't want the pre-update models, because they had various problems, but critically, some serious engine issues, with one side of the V8 failing ... very expensive stuff ..

As with most modern vehicles, supplier issues are often the route cause of reliability issues.

And another IMO, is new designs. One thing about the Discovery, is that its now a very mature design. And with better controls on suppliers, is why its reliability is getting better. But the real proof I guess is owning one for a long time ... it seems too that Discoveries are moving towards a focus on the shopping trolley market rather than focusing on 4WD features ...

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

Not sure where you got that gem from, but there is no other make of vehicle with so many Recalls, relating to safety issues, than Land Rover, and I am talking about NEW Land Rovers.

The list of Recalls I posted on the other forum, were posted on this forum first, by someone else.

So a little checking and you will see that safety issues are a major problem for new Land Rovers.

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Are they?

I'll give you two gems then.

Firstly, the top safety choice for its category in Europe from NCAP, is the Range Rover Sport.

Secondly, statistics from the USA where driver deaths are listed.

The safest vehicle being ... the LR3. No driver died in one.

However, if stats included those drivers in the cars hit by LR3s (D3s) then those stats may not be so good ...


From years 2006 to 2009 for vehicles made from 2005-08:
144,159 Discos were sold, and no fatalities. NADA.

Similar too was the over 100,000 Range Rover sports - also no deaths.
The Range Rover of that time had rated well but their score of 22 is still 22 more than the Disco / Range Rover sport mix. And now, the LR4 / D4 is safer, with a lot more tech and also the 3 litre ones stop very well.

The most dangerous car was the Nissan 350Z with 143 driver fatalities.

Ford Rangers performed badly ... but I do not know if they are related to today's BT-50s. The stats are not out on today's BT-50s and Ford Rangers ... I presume and hope they are a lot better than before.

Best value for someone wanting a cheap safe 4 door car must be a SAAB 9-3 - it performed like an E class Mercedes. Honda's larger size Accord (ours is made in Thailand) did well, and the CR-V did brilliantly. The RAV not nearly as well, but it was still I think second or third best small SUV for safety (non luxury). So a CR-V is a good safe buy too ... (if you base actual driver fatalities as a reasonable statistic. I do. )

Curiously the Mazda 3 had less the Mazda 6 (which is bigger).

Best 2WD car was the Mercedes E class, with only 12. But its AWD version was one of the 6 vehicles (one third of which were Land Rovers) who had no fatalities.

As far as recalls for safety - I have a few cars, and many are Toyota / Lexus. They also have recalls. Toyota though seem reticent to make the recalls, but eventually they have to. I'd prefer companies were keen to fix a safety problem, and recall it. The big companies though seem to be more and more run by their cost accountants.

As far as Land Rover goes ... its no wonder Mum's love taking the kids to school in a Discovery. Its very safe, easy to park, fits lots of kids, and you can see out of it. The problem is that (most often) wifes are being found guilty of steeling their husband's Discos. Now that is a major problem for the those partners out there that do not drop the kids off to school and sports ... *



* I used "partner" because I think I am fearful of being accused of being sexist ...

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Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

Firstly, the top safety choice for its category in Europe from NCAP, is the Range Rover Sport.

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They must make them different for Australia, when you consider the number of RRS owners who could not take delivery of their new RRS earlier this year.

Something about risking burning their new RRS to the ground if they turned the air conditioning on.

And this is just the latest manufacturing stuffup from LR.

So how does that go, safe in Europe, BBQ in Australia???????????????????

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

Hi RHS, and he didn't tell me what other make he was looking at, but as he put it, while repair costs were being covered by the warranty, he could put up with the problems as he, as I posted, loved the D4.

I was in the same position, that I was happy to put up with the faults and failures, as I was supposed to have had a new car warranty.

In my case, the LR warranty wasn't worth the paper it was written on, and as my RR literally began falling apart on the production line, having no warranty meant I have a $170,000 4x4 that can not be used on road, let alone trying to take it off road, which is what I bought it for.

When people make fictitious statements like, "Land Rover get excellent results for safety stats" when the exact opposite is the case. It is not until LR owners themselves, start to FORCE Land Rover to make safer products, LR is just going to continue with the same old same old.

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I am not making the stats up.

And you yourself have told me - before I bought it Timothy - that I'll love the D4, and that your own RR was a lemon. And that the problem was with Land Rover Australia, rather than Land Rover ... and I have a high end Traxide in my D4 - you know me ! But not my internet name !!!!!

So you recommended the Land Rover to me over the phone ... before I bought it ... knowing there was a Traxide sale coming ... and now you're saying that they are crap!!! Totally different to when I asked you for your opinion about buying a new Disco over the phone ...

Is that really you there writing this stuff Timothy?????



I could quote further stuff too on LR safety ... although they don't crash test them very often. IMO though, crash tests are only part of the story.

I can't find the link for those stats, but the later report is here, and it doesn't list the Discovery.

It has the RR sport though, and its not quite as good, but rates close to the top.

[ame]http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr5001.pdf[/ame]

And here is the link for the previous safety data which I quoted:

[ame]http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4605.pdf[/ame]

...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

They must make them different for Australia, when you consider the number of RRS owners who could not take delivery of their new RRS earlier this year.

Something about risking burning their new RRS to the ground if they turned the air conditioning on.

And this is just the latest manufacturing stuffup from LR.

So how does that go, safe in Europe, BBQ in Australia???????????????????

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Actually the top rating vehicle I spoke of was not the RR Sport, it is the Disco sport, coming very shortly I think.

But as I said before - new vehicles are always a reliability issue. For every brand, IMO at least. And if from a smaller producer - one should wait a few years IMO!!

And things are not perfect one even the top quality brands. Take for instance perhaps the top quality brand nowadays - Porsche. A close friend's assistant (my friend is a surgeon) bought a new Macan (the AWD crossover based on the Audi Q5). My friend also has one on order. After taking delivery, he wanted the roof racks put on his Porsche. But - it cannot be done. It weakens the body too much. It was to be installed in the factory. On the production line. Now - that is not a "quality" issue ... it's not a statistic that will be revealed. But its sured wrecked his experience.

And as you yourself told me - not worries with a second battery in the current D4s. I was worried about turbo heat ... and the current D4s now have a good AGM battery in them ... the guy I bought my battery from said that my D4 battery was super quality ... the older ones not good. One might blame LR for that ... but is that really their fault? And they've fixed that problem now it seems. And the turbo oil pipe issue was changed by LR ... they do fix things that aren't right ...

The battery guy had a low opinion of the yellow top he sold me too ... he said they haven't change the design for 15 years, and they've now been surpassed ... hmm ...

And from my buying experience - sales people often don't know much about what they are selling. Toyota people especially... Lexus though are good. and IMO, Land Rover people can be good, but you need to find the right person. Some dealerships are really bad too ...

I've just gone through a process of buying for my Mum, and quality is an issue for sure. The C class is brilliant, but has real quality issues IMO. Love its alloy doors though (nice and light). Air suspension in them is now cheap. I think air suspension will be common in a decade. But I think LR must have the off road system patented, as otherwise Mercedes would have done it on one of their GLs IMO.

I did not consider the Disco sport for my Mum, although its very safe. Because:
- I want one now
- the indicator stalk is on the left side (she can't handle that)
- I suspect the steering wheel weight will be heavy compared to a Lexus NX.
- Hopefully the NX is reliable (Lexus tries a lot harder on that score than Toyota)
- NX rates close (NCAP) to the top if fully equipped
- The NX controls are similar to her current vehicle (an Is-250) so she doesn't have to learn much.
- She liked the NX too ...

Incidentally the best anti-accident avoidance technology is the Forester's system IMO and from the tests I've read. It doesn't use radar, but a stereo or 3D image from cameras, and the computers work out what is going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

Actually the top rating vehicle I spoke of was not the RR Sport, it is the Disco sport, coming very shortly I think.

But as I said before - new vehicles are always a reliability issue. For every brand, IMO at least. And if from a smaller producer - one should wait a few years IMO!!

And things are not perfect one even the top quality brands. Take for instance perhaps the top quality brand nowadays - Porsche. A close friend's assistant (my friend is a surgeon) bought a new Macan (the AWD crossover based on the Audi Q5). My friend also has one on order. After taking delivery, he wanted the roof racks put on his Porsche. But - it cannot be done. It weakens the body too much. It was to be installed in the factory. Now - that is not a "quality" issue ... its not a statistic that will be revealed. But its sured wrecked his experience.

I've just gone through a process of buying for my Mum, and quality is an issue for sure. The C class is brilliant, but has real quality issues IMO. Love its alloy doors though (nice and light). Air suspension in them is now cheap. I think air suspension will be common in a decade. But I think LR must have the off road system patented, as otherwise Mercedes would have done it on one of their GLs IMO.

I did not consider the Disco sport for my Mum, although its very safe. Because:
- I want one now
- the indicator is on the left side (she can't handle that)
- I suspect the steering wheel weight will be heavy compared to a Lexus NX.
- Hopefully the NX is reliable (Lexus tries a lot harder on that score than Toyota)
- NX rates close (NCAP) to the top if fully equipped
- The NX controls are similar to her current vehicle (an Is-250) so she doesn't have to learn much.
- She liked the NX too ...

Incidentally the best anti-accident avoidance technology is the Forester's system IMO and from the tests I've read. It doesn't use radar, but a stereo or 3D image from cameras, and the computers work out what is going on.

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The "best anti-accident avoidance technology" is educating the nut behind the wheel;)