Thread: D4 2009 TDV6 3.0 - Engine Seized

Originally Posted by TerryO

I'm sure LR will tell you and everyone else that they sell new Disco's to that every 26k for a oil change is now the go.

After all it's a big selling point that you can extend service intervals by a extra 1.5 times over previously accepted long time norms and so you don't have to pay high service costs so often.
And I reckon that if they backed it up with a 200k warranty for engine failures caused by parts like bearings that totally rely on oil being in good condition then that would be ok. But they don't.

One question if you don't mind, are you planning to stick to the LR inspired change the oil every 26k schedule once you get a replacement engine fitted?

That's a very good point Terry regarding a longer warranty.


However, I'd also like to see some facts Vs suggestion that 26K isn't achievable in this day and age.


Anybody got detailed info on this .... as in measurements (cylinder size, etc.) before and after .... independently assessed oil quality tests that don't only highlight if the oil has degraded but if there are any unusual elements in the oil ... like particles that can be attributed to excessive bearing or cylinder wear, etc., for the duration of several 26K cycles?


Otherwise it's just soapbox speculation ....

Originally Posted by ianmck

Well. No news yet. Engine only just came out late yesterday. The Dealer is only to remove the sump to look for a cause.


I was told that if you remove the sump before removing the engine, if the engine then needs to come out (which seemed obvious) then you have to put the sump back on to remove the engine. Prior to any of this work I rang around and got a ball park figure for replacing the engine. Our local Dealer going on another replacement they had done gave me a similar estimate. We therefore decided they should remove the engine.


I should point out the previous engine they replaced was due to it running out of oil.


Our vehicle was a Demo vehicle. I can't remember how many kms it had done but not many. We had the oil changed at 12,000, 25,000 and then every 26,000 after that. All bar the last one were done by Landrover Dealers. The last one was done by a Repco servicing centre and they had to order in the correct oil for it.


Ian

So what did they do with the excess oil do you know? .... apparently it doesn't come in 5L containers. Or maybe you can get it in low volumes if you are a service centre.


Is it possible they didn't use the correct oil and just used what they had readily available? If the above is correct, it seems unlikely that Repco would order in a 50L drum for one car .... without slugging the owner.

Originally Posted by Celtoid

That's a very good point Terry regarding a longer warranty.


However, I'd also like to see some facts Vs suggestion that 26K isn't achievable in this day and age.


Anybody got detailed info on this .... as in measurements (cylinder size, etc.) before and after .... independently assessed oil quality tests that don't only highlight if the oil has degraded but if there are any unusual elements in the oil ... like particles that can be attributed to excessive bearing or cylinder wear, etc., for the duration of several 26K cycles?


Otherwise it's just soapbox speculation ....

I'm happy to stand on my soapbox when it comes to not changing oil on or about the 10k mark, 26k to me anyway is way to much of a risk and why would anyone want to risk a massively expensive engine failure for the sake of a few extra oil changes?

If some are prepared to risk their engines longevity and the potential consequences of not changing oil more often then that is their choice.

Originally Posted by Celtoid

So what did they do with the excess oil do you know? .... apparently it doesn't come in 5L containers. Or maybe you can get it in low volumes if you are a service centre.


Is it possible they didn't use the correct oil and just used what they had readily available? If the above is correct, it seems unlikely that Repco would order in a 50L drum for one car .... without slugging the owner.

I have to go to our local dealer who is happy to sell me a small amount if i bring in a (10litre) container. They sell it to me at a reasonable price so i can sell it at normal retail and make it worthwhile . Why would anyone risk not using the correct oil at a sensible change interval ? You have a $$$$$ investment in the vehicle oil is cheap!!!

Jc

Still no news yet from the Dealer. I rang yesterday afternoon and was told the engine is out but the person I was dealing with wasn't available.


I sent an oil sample off for analysis on Friday so should get the results back later this week. It is probably throwing good money after bad but for $40 it will hopefully enlighten me if nothing else to service intervals.


Celtoid, it is possible that the wrong oil was put in. Maybe the oil test will tell.

Ian

Originally Posted by TerryO

I'm happy to stand on my soapbox when it comes to not changing oil on or about the 10k mark, 26k to me anyway is way to much of a risk and why would anyone want to risk a massively expensive engine failure for the sake of a few extra oil changes?

If some are prepared to risk their engines longevity and the potential consequences of not changing oil more often then that is their choice.

Without used oil analysis you really don't know how long your oil is good for. The oil itself doesn't wear out, its the contamination that does it and modern engines run much cleaner than they used to. My last oil change was done @ 15K and the oil was still perfectly fine, minimal contamination and the viscosity was still within the range of new oil. Longer drain intervals recommended by manufacturers would be shorter than what the oil is capable of as they don't want premature engine failures within the warranty period due to oil - there's also the environmental aspect to consider as well

Originally Posted by ianmck

Still no news yet from the Dealer. I rang yesterday afternoon and was told the engine is out but the person I was dealing with wasn't available.


I sent an oil sample off for analysis on Friday so should get the results back later this week. It is probably throwing good money after bad but for $40 it will hopefully enlighten me if nothing else to service intervals.


Celtoid, it is possible that the wrong oil was put in. Maybe the oil test will tell.

Ian

You'll only really tell if the wrong viscosity oil was put in - as far as oil analysis is concerned the additives that show up in the results are all very similar between engine oils.

Originally Posted by Celtoid

That's a very good point Terry regarding a longer warranty.


However, I'd also like to see some facts Vs suggestion that 26K isn't achievable in this day and age.


Anybody got detailed info on this .... as in measurements (cylinder size, etc.) before and after .... independently assessed oil quality tests that don't only highlight if the oil has degraded but if there are any unusual elements in the oil ... like particles that can be attributed to excessive bearing or cylinder wear, etc., for the duration of several 26K cycles?


Otherwise it's just soapbox speculation ....

Celtoid in terms of general comments about service intervals and not aimed at the original post, over 20,000k plus is simply not good for any engine. I suspect that members of the public who posit otherwise have not changed their own oil (including seeing condensation in the oil), or stripped down an engine that has failed prematurely and that has sludge build up.

Mazda make very nice little petrol engines. Very tight tolerances. Petrol does not give engine oil a hard time like diesel does - especially diesels with EGR/particulate filtration. Yet Mazda have only recently INCREASED their servicing schedules to 10,000k or 12 months whichever is sooner. A 2.5 high comp Mazda 4 is a very long life engine and part of the 'secret' to its success is simply fresh oil. They have introduced capped price servicing to keep costs down, but I would never skimp on the 10,000k oil and filter change with my little Mazda 3 GT, and think it is simply asking for trouble to change oil and filter on a small hard working 2.7 or 3 litre turbocharged diesel hauling around close to 3 tonn every 20,000k plus.

Does 20,000k for a D3/4 diesel sound right? If the answer troubles you then change it at half that interval. Simple. So no soapbox, just some honest to goodness common sense.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozscott

Celtoid in terms of general comments about service intervals and not aimed at the original post, over 20,000k plus is simply not good for any engine. I suspect that members of the public who posit otherwise have not changed their own oil (including seeing condensation in the oil), or stripped down an engine that has failed prematurely and that has sludge build up.

Mazda make very nice little petrol engines. Very tight tolerances. Petrol does not give engine oil a hard time like diesel does - especially diesels with EGR/particulate filtration. Yet Mazda have only recently INCREASED their servicing schedules to 10,000k or 12 months whichever is sooner. A 2.5 high comp Mazda 4 is a very long life engine and part of the 'secret' to its success is simply fresh oil. They have introduced capped price servicing to keep costs down, but I would never skimp on the 10,000k oil and filter change with my little Mazda 3 GT, and think it is simply asking for trouble to change oil and filter on a small hard working 2.7 or 3 litre turbocharged diesel hauling around close to 3 tonn every 20,000k plus.

Does 20,000k for a D3/4 diesel sound right? If the answer troubles you then change it at half that interval. Simple. So no soapbox, just some honest to goodness common sense.

Cheers

Just to set the record straight, I change my oil every 13,000K ..... why? .... 'cause I'm sitting on the fence .... which is applying common sense until I have more facts.

However, I'm playing Devil's Advocate to explore some topics.

The norm used to be to change oil every 5Klms .... why did that change? The masses started to believe in the improvements in design and material (engine materials, engine design, oil improvements, etc.) So why doesn't this principle apply moving to greater oil change recommendations? Now, of course it makes sense that changing the oil more often is highly likely to be beneficial to the engine's life. However, if it could be proven that oil can last 30,000Klms without any significant degradation, then why would you change more often? My point is, you would assume LR has done some research ... or maybe they haven't and the theories of others regarding more attractive service intervals is actually the truth. But there you go ... I've said the word....'truth'. So what is the actual truth? Thus far we have a lot of common sense and a lot of speculation but no actual truth...let's call them scientific facts.

I'm not trying to pooh, pooh anybody's point of view or common sense approach. I would, as I'm sure everybody would, like to know the truth behind oil longevity and also why these engines are failing.

So .... My Soapbox comment was not about the oil per se, it's about the fact that a lot of statements are being made about why these engines are failing ... and there are no facts. Obviously, **** just happens sometimes and you get a failure but I'd love to get to a conclusion that gives a fairly accurate insight to what is causing them. If it is a fact that they are too highly stressed or there is some other design weakness, then there are going to be a lot people sweating ... including myself. But folks would want to know that. If it's a fact that the oil just can't cope for those periods of time ... well, folks would want to know that too ... because that is an easy fix. If it's the case that the engines failed because they were mistreated, the wrong oil was used, etc., then a lot of people could start breathing easier.

Everybody has the right to speculate .... but I like facts ... specially when it may cost me a lot of money..... through a failure or resale value loss.

That's the point I was making.....I'll get off my Soapbox now ...