Thread: D4 2009 TDV6 3.0 - Engine Seized

Originally Posted by scarry

I recon i could,a LOT cheaper and easier to repair,looks better,just my opinion.

No timing belts

I have taken the D2 on trips you couldn't take the D4.The old tele track on the cape comes to mind,a lot of water crossings,some over the bonnet.Did it twice with the D2,up and back,no problems at all.One easy mod,a snorkel,and a good set of boots.

Some may and have taken D3/4 on those types of trips,maybe i just worry to much.

Don't get me wrong,the D4 is a fantastic piece of kit,but it does have its disadvantages.It is way,way ahead of the D2 in many areas.

In fact i have had 3 D2s,travelled all over the country side and never had a breakdown or a repair.And they did a lot of hard off road work.

For remote area travel the D2,or for that matter a Deefer has a lot less things that can go wrong,than say a D3/4.Air suspension comes to mind here.

The D4 i have has played up,only minor things,but still those issues should never have happened.

Hope you are happy with the Deefer.I have used my sons a lot.It is really in a completely different class and can't be compared to a Disco.

I personally can't get into the capability argument having never really put mine through anything that seemed hard but I think it has been touched on numerous times before in this forum with the sentiment being that you'd have to mod a D2 a fair way to compete with a D4 and even then, it would only have the edge in limited areas. But they (people making the statement) could be wrong.


However, I've got to ark up ... well not really , on the reliability comments of Deefers and D1/2 Vs a D4. It is definitely true that the earlier Ds and Deefers have a lot less to go wrong ..... but they did ... and very, very often. They are the reason Toyo drivers and the whole world take the **** out of LRs. They are the reason TATA bought LR for a fire-sale! D3 era LRs onwards and equivalent timeframe Jags are why Mr TATA has been laughing all the way to the bank since then. Even the ****ty JD Powers (for what that crap is worth - last time I looked) seems to have found other non-LR/Jag targets of late and they used to love throwing rocks at LR/Jag.

Originally Posted by ozscott

Give it a break Nicky. He gave a number of reasons. I am not having a go at the D4 offroad but if you like a lighter and modded offroader the D2 is the vehicle of choice out of the 2. Horses for courses. He also wanted something simplier. Some people just like a more organic experience. The d4 eats it for space, comfort, towing and still retains great offroad ability. I answered a question honestly. After 2.5 decades of 4wding in a number of models i dont need the practice of writing this post...

Cheers

Did he mention it's a lot easier to not cringe when you scratch or bend a D2 Vs a new D4, was that one of his reasons? ... LOL!!!


I remember my first 'pinstripes' on my brand new D4 very well .... I talked tough at the time but was ****ed off when I was trying to sell it . Would have been a lot worse for the guy on the same track with the bent sills on his new Hi-Lux


Cheers.

I believe i am reasonably well qualified to comment here that yes: the d3/ d4 are world leading in their capabilities on road and offroad however the d2 has its place, too. People choose vehicles for all manner of reasons and my personal experience with both these models over many many years of repairing and maintaining them on a daily basis for all sorts of people with all sorts of needs/wants/budgets etc is the reason i have an isuzu county as MY weapon of choice... ☺

Any of you can read into the above post whatever you like....😆

JC

There's a lot of "apples vs oranges" here (and sorry to the OP for continuing this off-topic bent). LR aren't stupid - they have the largest R&D off-road department of any motor brand. The D3 was designed to be better than the D2 - the D4 was designed to be better than the D3. And thd D5 is being designed to be better than the D4. And that's off-road. That they don't cater for the after-market crowd is a marketing decision - as I've said before, the after-market industry will have to catch up.

Even so, a stock D3 with a decent set of tyres and a set of rods/LLAMS will eat all but the most extremely modified D1/ D2's off-road. I know - we had a (very) modified D1 that we used to run in competitions with our stock D3. There's no "more" that goes wrong with them - it's just what does go wrong is "different" to what traditional 4WD owners are used to. This is what we teach in our seminars - how to simply and effectively diagnose faults so that they're as simple to diagnose as the mechanical issues that are rampant with D1 / D2/ Deefer models.

Cheers,

Gordon

Throwawayfool...sorry for the divergence. I wont add any more to it i promise. Hope you get your issues sorted mate. Its crazy what newer models motors cost to replace. By replacing it you are really committing to the vehicle (for most people) for the long term. But its a good vehicle to commit to if you had to pick one.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Celtoid

I personally can't get into the capability argument having never really put mine through anything that seemed hard but I think it has been touched on numerous times before in this forum with the sentiment being that you'd have to mod a D2 a fair way to compete with a D4 and even then, it would only have the edge in limited areas. But they (people making the statement) could be wrong.

Sure,out of the box the D4 is way ahead,but how many people actually use these vehicles for extreme off road work?What i am saying is the D2 is probably quite adequate in its off road ability for most people


However, I've got to ark up ... well not really , on the reliability comments of Deefers and D1/2 Vs a D4. It is definitely true that the earlier Ds and Deefers have a lot less to go wrong ..... but they did ... and very, very often. They are the reason Toyo drivers and the whole world take the **** out of LRs. They are the reason TATA bought LR for a fire-sale! D3 era LRs onwards and equivalent timeframe Jags are why Mr TATA has been laughing all the way to the bank since then. Even the ****ty JD Powers (for what that crap is worth - last time I looked) seems to have found other non-LR/Jag targets of late and they used to love throwing rocks at LR/Jag.

Sure,the D3/4 is extremely reliable ,particularly considering how complicated the vehicle is.Maybe i just had a few D2's that were built on the right day,or maybe they were serviced correctly.The real issue is the repairs on a 10yr old D3/4 are going to be extremely expensive,compared with a D2 of the same sort of age and k's.

Anyway,just my 2cents worth

In the first 5 years of ownership my D2 was considerably less reliable than either my D3 or 4. The D4 has been by far the most reliable Land Rover I've ever owned (and I don't expect my next one to change that ). After 10 years it may be different, but I was really thinking about what my 13 year old D2 would be like compared to my 3 year old D4.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked my D2 and am not knocking them. I could live with a good example now if I had to, but I would find it very hard to after the D4 - it does everything I need it to so much better.

Cheers,
Jon

Hi There,
Having had both much like others here, from a complextity factor the D2 has got to be in front, I have just bought a D2 2002 TD5 SE, cost less that $5k, I bought it with a known head problem, even after fixing that I still have change out of the $5k. Full leather interior, heated seats, rear air con that doesn't work right now, sagging roof lining, great fuel economy and a minor leak out of the transfer case, its got everything. One thing for me was no timing belts, after 300 tdi's and 2.7 V6's I'm a little bit over it.
The D2 is very comfortable, the ACE does make a difference, the road holding is very good, it isn't air suspension so it isn't as smooth admittedly. I can get the engine out and change a turbo without lifting the body work off. My trailer lights don't flash.

The gearbox oil and engine oil (in the case of a D4) I can buy form any reasonable motor store and it doesn't cost $50 a litre. The hand brake is a lever, plain and simple, up and down. If the engine blows up I can buy a half decent motor for a couple of grand.

I love my RRS TDV8 to bits, awesome vehicle, however my D2 also has a very worthy place on the drive way, at least people know where I park.

Cheers Marty