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Thread: 3 litre inlet manifold crack problems

  1. #1
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    3 litre inlet manifold crack problems

    So my mugh lighter Right footed wife tells me that on a return from getting my Rolling road remapped and so far faultless 3.0 litre 2010 sport washed, it suddenly went into restricted performance mode recently.

    Fortunately I know someone with access to some diagnostic equipment and managed to pull up two fault codes that constantly re appeared as soon I hit about 3000 RPM along with the PM mode.

    One was P006A that indicated a discrepancy of Air flow info between a MAF and Map annd the second P1247 that indicated a loss of Turbo boost pressure.

    My initial research showed this combination indicates a problem with the secondary Turbo or more likely with its output plumbing.

    However deeper and more hands on research has revealed that the problem is actually due to something that is actually a quite common faliure of one of the two plastic inlet manifolds splitting / Cracking.

    There was apparently an LR TSB that explained that the material thickness on the Inlet manifolds was too thin, that seems to have dissapeared and my research shows that this problem only affects 2010 Sports and D4's with the 3.0 litre engine.
    Not only have I encontered numerous on line cases of this including one on this forum.
    http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/...3-0-litre.html

    On visiting my own LR specialist mechanic, he told me he had a vehicle booked in just a couple of days later with the same problem and on which he was replacing an inlet manifold.
    he let us pre read the Fault codes on that Vehicle which actually matched the two on mine verbatim

    Two days later he showed me the crack on the removed Manifold, which was actually the opposite side to the one I figured from the Oil traces was split somewhere on mine, he also told me that he realised the other manifold had already been replaced on that vehicle.

    I checked the exact same place on the other side of my Manifold and sure enough I found the crack.

    The fault codes are only loosely related as in my case the crack only opens when the secondary turbo adds it's boost. Larger cracks might give fault codes that indicate a problem with the Primary Turbo etc.

    Or if a crack is small enough it might only reduce performance and economy without triggering a Fault.

    I came across one case where the crack had become something you would otherwise need a Tin opener for.

    The replacement and updated from 2011 on manifolds are not exacty cheap but to replace them takes 8 or 9 hours due to all the other stuff that has to be removed and refitted.

    Nice one LR
    Colin
    MD of Blackbox Solutions Ltd.
    www.blackbox-solutions.com

  2. #2
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    Thanks and commiserations colin. I'm looking forward to doing my first one. Not.

    Again thanks LR engineers...

    Jc
    The Isuzu 110. Solid and as dependable as a rock, coming soon with auto box😊
    The Range Rover L322 4.4.TTDV8 ....probably won't bother with the remap..😈

  3. #3
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    That was my recent post on Turbo Leak in 3.0l. I replaced both manifolds, even though only one was cracked. From your post it looks like I did the right thing. Mine started like yours, only producing an error after revving the engine a bit during normal driving. However, it quickly progressed to the point where it would error almost immediately once driving.

  4. #4
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    Despite reading about over a dozen cases on line of this Inlet Manifold Cracking and having another case right in front of me, as well a my own, the only pictures of the damage I could find on line were these two in which case the damage has clearly gone way beyond a small and hard to detect crack.





    And after removal




    So, I thought that after getting my replacments Today I would take a couple of pictures of them and use these to show exctly where the Cracking starts on them or at least from the examples i have seen myself is the case with a bit of Photo shopping to add a Red line where you should look.

    This is the RH ie when looking from the front of the vehicle or the passenger side on a RHD vehicle and is the one that my Garage echanic friend just changed on another 2010 Sport vehicle and then showed me the removed one ith a crack just where i have indicated with a photo shopped in Red line on my picture.

    Interestingly there is now and additional stub / Boss I have circled in Blue in the New replacement that is not present in the origional failed one and you also get a new blank engine number tag which is not so cool.



    This is the one that is actually cracked on my own RRS. It is called the LHside as that s the side it is on when you are standing in front of the engine. Otherwise it is on the drivers side on a RHD vehicle which is the side the Secondary Turbo is fitted.

    The location you should check for a crack is also indicated with a red Line and as with my piture of the other side, I have been sure to have the Part Number included in the picture that I am assured is the latest although i find it worrying that there seeems to be no dicernable improvement in strength where the cracking occurs.




    This is quite obviously much more than a one off or infrequent problem as indicated by JC and Bob, who was quite right to change both.

    These inlet manifolds are quite clearly unfit for purporse.

    And it is not so much the cost of the parts but the difficuty and time involved in replacing them.

    Thanks LR, Not.
    Colin
    MD of Blackbox Solutions Ltd.
    www.blackbox-solutions.com

  5. #5
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    Good that they've improved the design; bad that it was a bad design.

    Not sure about ethics here ... if under warranty they'd have fixed it though.

    Lexus would probably pay for half the labour and parts ... or perhaps the whole lot, because 6 year warranties can be available for Toyotas.

    I would try to get some back from Land Rover ... although now its done, that would be more difficult.

    I wonder what legal rights you might have ... as its clearly a faulty design.

  6. #6
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    For me, especially given my geographic location, chasing up this as a design flaw in the hope of getting some acknowledgement or assistance from LR is not that viable.

    I am just happy to find and fix this and accordingly share my findings via this forum with others. After all, that is the benefit of the internet and forums such as this.

    So far I have shared pictures I found on line of one person who had the lid of his LH Inlet manifold well blown.

    But some may think that this could have been some one off manufacturing defect, but then I stated that my Mechanic had just replaced a RH one a few days earlier for a crack / Split on a 3.0 2010 RRS that he believed had already had its LH one replaced.

    Having got the RH one my mechanic removed from this other Vehicle as well as the LH one he removed from mine, I have taken some pictures of both that clearly show real world and hopefully undeniable examples of this weakness. After all everyone likes to see the pictures and evidence themselves

    First off is my own LH side one where i have ringed the crack / Split in a red line



    Of course the Crack / split would open up under pressure and to further emphasise this I have taken a close up with a small Coin inserted in the crack / Split.



    On the RH side the crack is in the same place



    And again in close up and emphasised with a Coin



    You may note that the RH side pictures show huge amounts of soot and dirt near the Crack / Split where mine is quite clean. I put this down to the owner continuing to use his Vehicle for an extended period after this happened.

    For those not able to figure the orientation and position of these Manifolds and Crack's / Split's I also took this one of the 2 manifolds in the positions you would see them from standing in front of the vehicle leaving the Coins in.



    Of course I knew nothing of this Crack / Split until my Vehicles Engine Management threw a wobbly, but I do consider that there may well have been a crack / Split that was initially small enough to not cause a wobbly in the EMS but reduce power and efficiency.

    One of the first things I checked was my air filter, which to my utter shame was in an absolutely disgraceful condition and unusually I found even worse in my Air Box. My investigations also found that the Vacumn actuator of the Secondary Turbo Bypass valve was a suspect, which I also had replaced with the Inlet Manifolds as well as a Oil and all filters.

    I am not sure which had the most effect, but what I can say for sure is that the vehicle now delivers a degree of power and performance that is truly astonishing and really puts a smile on my face.

    ATB
    Colin
    MD of Blackbox Solutions Ltd.
    www.blackbox-solutions.com

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the excellent post. I'm sure this will be a big help for others when troubleshooting.

    Scott
    D4 TDV6 MY14 with Llams, Tuffant Wheels, Traxide DBS, APT sliders & protection plates, Prospeed Winch Mount w/ Carbon 12K, Mitch Hitch & Drifta Drawers
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    My mechanic commented today to me that this is becoming more & more prevalent in the 3.0ltr engine.
    More of a worry is the service schedule for the D4 is 24,000k or 12mths which is way too long.

    Everyone knows of the secondary turbo drain pipe issue as another thing to consider.

    I will not be buying any secondhand 3.0 engine which has been serviced by the book, like the auto it's asking for issues once the warranty period has ended.
    I'd only ever consider one that had been serviced every 10/12,000k.

    Remember also that many D4's have been used as school run vehicles which classifies as arduous conditions due to the short less than 10km distance travelled. This too should have the oil changed more often but of course this would not have happened.

    Gonna be a lot of issues coming up with stuffed engines!
    Perhaps a class action stating that all these vehicles were serviced by the book yet fail within a short lifespan.

    Terry that V8 petrol sound like the way to go!
    (No I'm not selling mine)
    Cheers Rich.
    2014 SDV6 HSE - LLAMS, Custom Drawer storage system https://www.box.com/s/jem0ilac3cner2mexq64

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    3 litre inlet manifold crack problems

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Rich~ View Post
    My mechanic commented today to me that this is becoming more & more prevalent in the 3.0ltr engine.
    More of a worry is the service schedule for the D4 is 24,000k or 12mths which is way too long.
    I agree with you Rich regarding service schedule, that's what I'm doing (10/12k). But I'm not sure if more frequent servicing focused on oil/filter changes would have picked up the cracked manifold earlier. I think it would be a particularly diligent mechanic that would find such a fault during a regular service, unless of course one was specifically looking for known issues. I guess this is an advantage of using good, experienced and diligent people and perhaps looking over things yourself too.

    Regarding the increasing prevalence of 3.0L engine issues, perhaps this is a function of more of them getting to the lifespan/age when things that are going to wear out or break will occur. And this situation has already occured for most 2.7L engines, being older.

    I wonder if, on average, the 2.7 or 3.0 suffer from more failures?

    Cheers,
    Scott
    D4 TDV6 MY14 with Llams, Tuffant Wheels, Traxide DBS, APT sliders & protection plates, Prospeed Winch Mount w/ Carbon 12K, Mitch Hitch & Drifta Drawers
    Link to my D4 Build Thread
    D3 2005 V8 Petrol
    Ex '77 RRC 2 door. Long gone but not forgotten.

  10. #10
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    My car was serviced at 24,000km intervals before I bought it at 60,000km. since then it has been at around 10,000km and I am up to about 207,000 now. My cracked manifold threw up a fault and restricted performance before there was any noticeable loss of power or any other symptoms. After a week of resetting the fault it reoccurred every time I accelerated. You would have to be extremely stupid or ignorant to drive around continuously with restricted performance like that photo indicates. The car is extremely gutless with basically no turbo, even though it will drive OK and get you slowly from A to B.

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