Thread: D3 Fraser Island disappointment

Originally Posted by PhilipA

I don't know, many must think they are driving a Ferrari rather than a 2.6 tonne 4x4.

I have found that I can comfortably keep up with D3s and D4s on roads such as the Alpine Way in NSW in my 40MM lifted D2 without ACE.

IMHO any difference in handling only comes to the fore at "SWMBO punch in Thigh " speeds .

To me after coming from a 92 RRC which had roll bars, although I took the rear off to fit a LR tank, and it was "tailly" anyway with it on, I find the D2 ridiculously stiff in roll compared to the RRC and subsequently having more "head toss" and suspension harshness. I am looking to buy a set of detachable front roll bar links when I can get the cash together.




Remember lack of roll does NOT equate to road holding which is a different thing.

Regards Philip A

It's been a long time since I did physics at school but your comments were the first thing that came to mind when folks started talking about taller, stiffer vehicles being better on the road than the standard (wobbly ... LOL) vehicles. I could be wrong but I assumed the lateral (sway/roll) movement energy has to go somewhere. If the shocks and springs aren't absorbing it through active compression, where does it go? Wouldn't you be increasing your chances of the tyres just letting go, especially in the wet? Or even worse, rolling the car, should something untoward occur?

Yes I often think that is why DSC had to then be included as breakaway would bee more sudden with excessive roll stiffness.it would also have to be conservative to ensure no breakaway in adverse conditions, as motor journalists constantly whine about.

The same DSC that makes a D3/4 useless in sand unless deactivated.

Regards Philip A

So doesn't the same apply to taller stiffer coil sprung vehicles ?

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Remember lack of roll does NOT equate to road holding which is a different thing.

It's a not insignificant part of the equation though.

Roll means weight transfer to the outside tyres meaning less grip on the inside tyres, which means reduced road holding.

Cheers,
Jon

Originally Posted by jon3950

It's a not insignificant part of the equation though.

Roll means weight transfer to the outside tyres meaning less grip on the inside tyres, which means reduced road holding.

Cheers,
Jon

I would also add that it retains better suspension and tyre geometry when cornering, and uprated springs and particularly uprated shocks can greatly improve the tyres ability to maintain traction on the road surfaces compared to standard.

Increased CofG is just one aspect to the equation.

Hmmm.
Its pretty well accepted that excessive roll stiffness causes quick transition from grip to no grip particularly in wet conditions.

While the absolute limit of traction may be lower with more roll the transition from grip to no grip is more linear with more body roll within sensible limits.

In any case, this argument I hope is pretty hypothetical as most drivers would rarely exceed about 0.5 G when the limits are around 0.8 or so.

Hence my comment regarding SWMBO thigh punching.
Regards Philip A

Back on topic for a moment, running 32" tyres on a air sprung D3/4 with either Gordon's rods or a Llams kit is no big deal if you also have fitted one of Gordon's emergency inflation kits. The only really problem is if you damage a airbag but in the ten years that LR has been fitting this suspension so far I have not heard of that happening, touch wood.

As I said previously with a coiler once you add a extended spring kit and 32 inch tyres they are a real pain in the butt to get into and out off, plus no matter what the ARB tests showed once you add in the other extra's that any serious off road 4x4 has fitted like a steel bull bar and winch, dual battery kit, rock sliders, rear wheel carrier etc then they handle not so well on road. Plus serious off road 32 inch tyres on 17 inch rims have lots of flex in the side walls so spirited on road driving in such a top heavy vehicle is interesting to say the least.

Where as a air suspended Disco with a Llams kit or GOA rods is both good on road and off.

Below is a photo of my D3 with Llams at full height plus off road height with 265x70/17" (31.5 inch) BFG KM2's fitted, compare it to a standard D2 and Steve's D2 with 33" Muddies and from memory 2" body plus 2" suspension lift, in comparison the D3 had back then, before he really modded the D2 even more, roughly about the same ground clearance.

I have driven it at minus 20mm (Llams) on road with those tyres fitted and apart from big country road bumps at speed where the tyres hit the inner guards it drives kind of ok but I wouldn't recommend it, in fact I drove it like that by accident.

Originally Posted by TerryO

Below is a photo of my D3 with Llams at full height plus off road height with 31.5 inch BFG KM2's fitted, compare it to a standard D2 and Steve's D2 with 33" Muddies and from memory 2" body and 2" suspension lift, in comparison it had back then about the same ground clearance. I have driven it at minus 20mm (Llams) on road with those tyres fitted and apart from big country road bumps at speed where the tyres hit the inner guards it drives ok.

What wheel rims have you got there? Looks great!

Edit: You seem to have changed your picture! Can't make out the wheels as easily now, still looks great ��