Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

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Originally Posted by AndyG

I never suggested the D4 was not hugely capable, what I should have said is the D4 is optimised for the private/ recreational driver. To complement the range the Defender needs to be optimised as a work horse, and will end up having different off road capabilities. Like a heavy usable. payload. Not better or worse, different

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Well, why didn't you say that then? .... LOL


I agree.

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Originally Posted by ozscott

The d3 was probably the strongest platform. I thought d4 dropped weight in chassis. Essentially both are mono on and around ladder. So both platform types in one. Cheers

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I can't comment on that. Sure somebody knows if that is a fact. I thought they had exactly the same chassis. Never heard it mentioned otherwise but that doesn't mean anything.

I don't understand the argument that solid axles are better than independent, look at the Pinzgauer for example. Mind apparently they have a tendency to fall on their side.


Umm a Defender with factory portals, that would be a game changer, but the $$$$ would prevent that.

Celtoid they may not of in the end. i had read that they were trying to reduce weight because frankly it didnt need to be as heavy as it was. Of course the extra weight over d2 wasnt just in thick carpet and extra computers. It was taking a ladder chassis and puting monocoque on it.
Or as Clarkson put it, it flattened humps in the road.

Anyone who doubs the structural strength of a D3/4 only needs to see it in a high speed head on.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by 1nando

The whole monocoque chassis thing being stronger is a load of BS!

yes i am going to refer to trucks here;

Things built to lug heavy loads day in and day out use ladder frame chassis not monocoque chassis. There is also a reason trucks have live axels, allows big loads to be carried day in and day out. A vehicle that is tough enough to carry a big load is a strong vehicle. Better yet is that the puma is 1/2 ton lighter than a d4 but has a 1/4 ton more pay load......looks to me like the defender chassis is plenty strong.

The weakest link in the puma is the rear diff and axels. $3000 for an elocker, hy tuff axels and hd flanges all round fixes this. Costs about the same as it does to fit a decent set of rims and tyres on a d4.

You have convinced me the d4 is capable but you will never convince me its tougher or more capable OFF ROAD than my puma. Yes it is more capable at speed, and on tarmac but that is not the comparison here.

I repeat the most important factors in a tough 4wd are: vehicle clearance, tyre size, supply carrying capacity and load, angles of approach/exit etc, easy to fix

The d4 has lower sills than a puma, cant fit bigger tyres at a reasonable price, smaller payload, smaller angles of approach etc, and needs a super computer to fix a million and one sensors!

My opinion, you dont have yo agree...but i refuse to sit here and read all the BS that is written on this site. God, if this site was half acurate you'd swear all LR's were pieces of ....!

Out of curiosity how many have ever seen a d4 personally on a tuff track with the big boys?
Besides Gordon and his great rig/set up id say he is the exception to my above statement. There wouldnt be many d4 drivers here that would have ever put theirs vehicles up to that sort of punishment. Its easy to sit at home and write crap on this site!

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Yes old mate people do write crap on websites and forums. Sometimes you don't have to look to far to find it either.

By the way have you seen this? ... :angel: I reckon it would be a good thing if you watched all of it.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl01R8LxTI[/ame]


So what did you learn? ... ;)

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Originally Posted by 1nando

Also please Google monochrome chassis vs ladder frame and you will see that ttough rugged vehicles all require a ladder frame chassis.

A monocoque chassis is actually a liability off road due to its design. If you were to damage the vehicle lets say on a corner pillar gor example you would then be compromising that vehicles chassis strength! Now im no genius but serious 4wding can lead to some serious bangs ,dents and serious panel damage: this would make the d4 a risky prospect due to its monocoque chassis. This is why trucks and proper/real 4wds are built with ladder frame chassis, there stronger and fit for purpose!

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So what could be better than a ladder chassis or a monocoque body if your going to build the ultimate production family friendly 4x4 of its time? ... How about a vehicle that has both a ladder chassis and a monocoque body combined to give maximum strength! ... :ohyes:


[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl01R8LxTI[/ame]

Nice Video.
So we heard "ladder frame chassis";
changed the tyres (we all know that one);
and "I don't think there's anoooother car like it"

Says it all.

Interesting that the LR Expedition Roof Rack is only officially rated to 54.3KG ..... yet they have 80L of fuel on top (~80KG) and a spare wheel.....


Unless they are only carrying the spare empty jerries on top .... :confused:

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Originally Posted by TerryO

So what could be better than a ladder chassis or a monocoque body if your going to build the ultimate production family friendly 4x4 of its time? ... How about a vehicle that has both a ladder chassis and a monocoque body combined to give maximum strength! ... :ohyes:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl01R8LxTI

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A monocoque chassis complenments a ladder chassis. Excess rigidity is not necessarily a good thing in a 4wd but more so in a race car for example. The ladder frame chassis on the d4 relys on its monocoque design for strength and as a result and serious damage to the vehicle compromises its overall stregth.
The reason im mentioning all this is becuase you blokes have been c rapping on for a few posts now making it sound like the defender chassis is some how made of cheese...

As mentioned before the defender weighs 1/2 ton less and has a 1/4 ton more pay load. As a result i cant agree with your argument about the d4 chassis being stronger.

As mentioned before: i have come to accept that the d4 is a capable vehicle. But to put it on par with a defender you need to spend some serious money. If i spend that same amonut on something like a rear locker for wxample then the d4 is no match..my opinion