D4 Driving over Big red on 19' rims

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Originally Posted by mfpoli

How fast were you going on those rocky roads? And how large were those rocks? Golf ball or tennis ball size? I am trying to determine whether the western approaches to the Simpson (ie From Mt Dare) are doable with standard rubber as I understand those sections are quite nasty.

Kindly advise
Thank you
Mario

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The road from Windorah to Birdsville was the worst for sharp rocks. Don't get me wrong it was an awesome road, wide, flat and most of the time I was doing 120-140km/h. But hard on the tyres :) Rocks were smaller than golf balls, probably 30-40mm. I went into SA with the intention of getting to innamincka, but the combo of falling light, unproven range of the spare fuel, a major lightning storm and me sleeping on the roof of the car pushed me back to QLD. But that road was probably the worst I came across, 40-50km/ hour tops and mostly 30km/h It was little more than a track across someones paddock.

From my experience with these tyres Id recon they are totally not suitable for it. They all have chunks missing, serious side wall cuts.

If I had my time again, Id seriously think about getting some good offroad tyres, doing the trip then putting the 70% ones you have back on to get the remaining life out of them. I certainly killed mine.

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

DSC - based on what I've read only ... the D4's electronics are never really off ... so if you got a bit wobbly, the DSC may have lightly intervened. It could also have been just the fact that you were driving a 3 ton car with tyre pressures that are too high, on tyres that have little floatation due to their size.....exactly as your test was designed to explore. Good on you for testing your car out a bit ... most folks wouldn't do that :D

Tyre pressure on the Wranglers - Wranglers perform pretty well for what they have been designed to do, which is primarily road based driving. They are quiet and stick well in both the wet and dry.

However, IMHO they have three flaws:

• They are not as rigid on the road as they possibly could be ... but I guess that's a comfort thing and compensating for their lack of sidewall.
• They are woefully over-priced.
• They become very puncture prone, so I'm not sure how much the pressure matters. I lost three in a weekend on gravel Forestry Tracks (around 40K wear). Stones just pushed through he tread block at both standard and heavy placard pressures ... which are actually quite soft if you talk to tyre people.

Cheers.

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Thats interesting information, I guess I should be stoked at only loosing one :)

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Originally Posted by RovingS

Thats interesting information, I guess I should be stoked at only loosing one :)

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Yup you were. I have another set of wheels and tyres now. I change to 18's (AT Type Tyre) when going off the beaten track.


It's a little PITA changing over but I much prefer the way the 19's drive on the road. Considering I only camp or go on the beach around half a dozen times a year, this is a better option for me. Plus my 18s will last forever with maximum tread.


On my old D4 I tried running a 'better' tyre on the 19s and changed to Pirelli Scorpion ATRs. I was pretty happy for a while, as they drove very well on the road, more rigid but just as quiet as the Wranglers. They also seemed better on mild off-road stuff. However, I felt they became a bit skittish cornering in the wet once they wore a bit and my son and I had a near death experience in the wet at highway speeds. It might have just been circumstantial but I've now read a few reports about similar experiences. I won't buy them for my latest D4 once it's Wranglers are dead......which have only just done 30K and have had two punctures already .... LOL!!!

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Originally Posted by mfpoli

RovingS - thank you for sharing your experience. I am trying to plan a trip to the Simpson, Oodnadatta track, Birdsville track, etc but caught up on the issue about the standard 19" tyres. From what I hear from a number of posts on the subject, it appears that it can be done, but you need to take it slower and pick your lines. I prefer to wear out my wranglers (which have got circa 70% tread) before investing in some ATs.

Just a couple of questions ..... How fast were you going on those rocky roads? And how large were those rocks? Golf ball or tennis ball size? I am trying to determine whether the western approaches to the Simpson (ie From Mt Dare) are doable with standard rubber as I understand those sections are quite nasty.

Kindly advise
Thank you
Mario

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Mario - here's a photo of the track between The Western Edge of the Simpson and Dalhousie Springs. This was the section I felt was the worst and needed me to slow down more than usual. The rest were just "rocky roads" except for where the council has just spread some fresh hard sharp clay over the track. I ran Cooper Zeon LTR's in 19". Still dented 2 rims though - those things are like musk sticks.
https://goo.gl/photos/xoBmqGgrWrNRtTFM6
https://goo.gl/photos/5svUXUGWd3xNtGu97

And here's a link to the D3 going over Big Red on 19's - aired down to about 16PSI for this attempt. 20PSI only got me within 10 metres of the top. Very chopped up approach. Fully laden - [ame="http://vid1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/matti45561/Clip%206_zpshwyrcr0i.mp4"]http://vid1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/matti45561/Clip%206_zpshwyrcr0i.mp4[/ame]

and an album of the whole trip is here - https://goo.gl/photos/vMy7Tht8diX9AQGT6

404 error on those links to Google Photos Matt.

Dalhousie Springs to Mt Dare!
Shocking piece of road, goolies everywhere.

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Originally Posted by ~Rich~

404 error on those links to Google Photos Matt.

Dalhousie Springs to Mt Dare!
Shocking piece of road, goolies everywhere.

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You should try the road from Alice,down through Finke then across to Mt Dare.

It is an absolute shocker:(

Agreed, Mt Dare to Dalhousie is a shocker as well.

Don't tell Patrol and old Landcruiser owners you were doing 120 to 140 on standard well worn tyres on sharp rocky roads. They won't believe you!


My D697's rear tyres were quite badly cut up on that section of road and the Birdsville Track as well. I was towing 2.2 tonnes but only doing up to 110 and slowing to around 70 to 80 on corrugations. I had canvas showing in one cut between the treads on a rear tyre. No issues at all with the front tyres and the BFGoodrich K0 AT tyres on the Kimberley Karavan were also pretty badly chipped with severe stone blasting on the exposed bits of the KK.


My son reckoned I should change the rear tyre but it did Birdsville to Perth via the Great Central Road with no problems and then I chucked it in the bin.


When I work out how to I might post some pictures of the damaged D697 tyre.

In 2008 the Pedirka PAR was the worst I encountered in the area - sharp boulders rather than gravel.

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

DSC - based on what I've read only ... the D4's electronics are never really off ... so if you got a bit wobbly, the DSC may have lightly intervened. It could also have been just the fact that you were driving a 3 ton car with tyre pressures that are too high, on tyres that have little floatation due to their size.....exactly as your test was designed to explore. Good on you for testing your car out a bit ... most folks wouldn't do that :D

Tyre pressure on the Wranglers - Wranglers perform pretty well for what they have been designed to do, which is primarily road based driving. They are quiet and stick well in both the wet and dry.

However, IMHO they have three flaws:

• They are not as rigid on the road as they possibly could be ... but I guess that's a comfort thing and compensating for their lack of sidewall.
• They are woefully over-priced.
• They become very puncture prone, so I'm not sure how much the pressure matters. I lost three in a weekend on gravel Forestry Tracks (around 40K wear). Stones just pushed through he tread block at both standard and heavy placard pressures ... which are actually quite soft if you talk to tyre people.

Cheers.

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Hi Celtoid, Good to read your comments re placard notations and tyre people input - could that suggest that the door placard not have relevance to what we should run AT and LT pressures, are the manufacturers rec. too soft? regards Ian A

The ride suffers greatly if you use higher pressures. It loses some of its "floating on air" feeling. I reckon the placard pressures are good, even with my larger AT tyres.


As soon as I go back to the old 19 inch Wranglers in my shed I don't like the harsher ride compared with the 18 inch D697's. I want to wear them out but they only last a day and the 18 inch wheels go back on!!