Towing Weights

cant help myself,,

Pics of the Van Pete ? ;)

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Originally Posted by PeterJ

Hi Andrew, a few reflections having been through the process.

Look at the chassis spec plate, it will tell you where you are in the spectrum and what wriggle room you have. My van was originally plated at 3100kg ATM, the chassis is 3500, a simple paper work exercise (in SA) to get it re-rated to 3400. Not that I am up at that level, try very hard to keep it sub 3200 but it gives me some head room JIC, and 3200 is way more than I wanted to be at before the buying process started, but there you go.
Perhaps caravan manufacturers use a random number generator a far as van tare is concerned, put it on a weigh bridge BEFORE you sign the check, put it in the contract as a purchase condition because the common practice is for manufacturers to add 400kg to tare for a dual axle van to come up with ATM, then when you fill the 2 x 95 L water tanks it eats up nearly half the allowance, fill the gas bottles, a stuby of light, fat free snag for the low carb bread, pair of jocks and you are knocking on the door :bangin: well, you know what I mean. So, if they fudge the tare you are going to have troubles. I actually noticed at the recent Adelaide van show some of the manufactures were plating the vans based on chassis capacity, so that's a step in the right direction except I worry that for many people that will become the new "target", not a good concept.

Keeping the mass down is the hardest thing ever, and it is very easy to end up a lot heavier than you might want, I certainly did, but that does not necessarily translate into being illegally overloaded, some quick definitions for you.

Compliance Plate Data example
Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) = 3300 kg for example
[ ATM is the total laden weight of a trailer which includes the tow ball mass and whatever is added as payload. This includes water, gas food ect. the ATM is specified by the trailer manufacturer and must not be exceeded]
Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) = 3100 kg
[GTM is the total permissible mass which includes payload (water, gas food) that can be supported by the wheels of the trailer. This does not include the mass supported by the tow ball]
Tare Mass = 2900 kg and is the unladen mass of the trailer.
Tow ball mass = ATM - GTM
TBM = 3300 - 3100 = 200 kg.
Gross Combination Mass (GCM) is the rating provided by the manufacturer of the tow vehicle. The maximum laden mass of the tow vehicle plus the maximum laden mass of an attached trailer must not exceed the GCM rating, for the D4 it is 6740kg.

Hence, you need to put the car on the weigh bridge in the configuration that you intend travelling with and do the numbers.

Enjoy......................Peter

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Thanks Peter.
You appreciate where I'm coming from.
The van builders need to be more honest,they put it back on the buyer by saying"depending on buyers options" in the websites.They should know what every combination weighs.
Hence this thread,I want to get all my info in my head correct before locking horns.
Thanks
Andrew

Attachment 120622

Sorry, can not get it bigger or right way up, any suggestions would be very appreciated.

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Originally Posted by LandyAndy

This is what Deb and I both liked the most at last years show.Kitchen up the front and out the way,plenty of room with the large slide out.Was bright and breezy wich we realy liked.
50th Anniversary Avida Topaz Caravan Review - Avida RV
Andrew

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Nice looking van...

Although I See what it is about these modern vans I dislike..

Bloody Porcelain basin in bathroom.. Solid wood or heavy bench tops etc...

Really does need to be an overhaul of the Aussie Van scene and laws. Especially as they are becoming more prolific on the roads - increasing the odds of incidents.

As an example. The UK vans are much larger, and much (try circa 1t) lighter with ball weights of 100-180kg.. only we insist on towing weights heavier than the tow vehicle (generally not the best idea).


Best of luck with your search Andy...

Andy,

Have fun at the show. From the manual below.

• Vehicle weight 2558kg
• GVW 3240kg The maximum permissible weight of the vehicle including passengers and load.
• GTW 6740kg The maximum permissible weight of the vehicle and braked trailer including their respective loads.
• FITTING THE DETACHABLE DRAWBAR RECEIVER (Australia only), the nose weight can be increased to 350 kg (772 lb) if the GVW is reduced by 200 kg (441 lb).
  
  • e.g. Vehicle payload 682kg reduce to 482kg with 350kg ball weight.
  
  
• Max rear axle load 1855kg
  
  • Note: When calculating rear axle loading remember that the trailer's nose weight, the load in the vehicle's loadspace area, weight on the roof rack, and the weight of rear seat passengers must all be added together.

I am not sure how you calculate the rear axle load before adding the weights described above.

I would recommend at least 600kg for payload. Best done as part of the purchase so you know the axle class rating does not limit the load. If you end up buying new ensure it gets weighed (only some manufacturers weigh each van), I would expect a salesman would be willing to agree to provide a weighbridge cert with Tare Mass, and the empty Ball-Loading that as part of the sale. There have been some buyers that have weighed the vans after purchase and found that they are a lot heavier than stated on the plate.

Our van is 2750 Tare and 3350 ATM. The stated ball weight is 220kg and is usually around the 300-320kg when loaded. The axle group capacity is 3200kg.

Cheers
Craig

Yes I do Andrew, I think the sales pitch is a real worry, you certainly do need to have some clear sets of numbers sorted out as far as the mass of your car, the van and the combination. Also, you will inevitably modify the van, this usually involves adding mass, so leave as much safety margin as you can at the start of the process.
Try to not let the whole thing stress you out, it's actually a fun time,and I think the prep work is the key.

Peter

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Nice looking van...

Although I See what it is about these modern vans I dislike..

Bloody Porcelain basin in bathroom.. Solid wood or heavy bench tops etc...

Really does need to be an overhaul of the Aussie Van scene and laws. Especially as they are becoming more prolific on the roads - increasing the odds of incidents.

As an example. The UK vans are much larger, and much (try circa 1t) lighter with ball weights of 100-180kg.. only we insist on towing weights heavier than the tow vehicle (generally not the best idea).


Best of luck with your search Andy...

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Maybe we need to invite your mate Collyn over here [bigwhistle]. Pat

Isnt this more about KG than V ?

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Originally Posted by PeterJ

Attachment 120622

Sorry, can not get it bigger or right way up, any suggestions would be very appreciated.

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Here ya go

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Maybe we need to invite your mate Collyn over here [bigwhistle]. Pat

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Bwahahaha. He's certainly not my mate!