Thread: Replacement battery for a D4

Originally Posted by TonyC

So you had two electric motors that were jammed, and you keep pouring power into them till they burnt out, and the cause was the battery ??

Tony

Honestly, I apologize for trying to add my experience to this post and the question posed.
Don't worry about it. This is pointless. Im wrong, Delco are wrong.

Simple

Originally Posted by TonyC

So you had two electric motors that were jammed, and you keep pouring power into them till they burnt out, and the cause was the battery ??

Tony

The question still remains, if the approved available CCA was all that was provided to the jammed starter, would the starter have survived without burnout? I cannot say.
All I can say is that manufacturers of starter motors, not dual battery kits, or anything else, clearly document they have a limit on the CCA that they will support. I’d say they know more given they designed it, know the winding capability, and yes, they are designing it to survive edge cases, not just the average.

The fact that I’m a perfect world where things operate as they should (eg engine starts when we push the button), doesn’t take away from the original question which is yes, there are limits to CCA in edge use cases, which is all the point I was making. The English language is a subtle thing.

Again, the question was binary - can I have too much CCA - yes,

However!!!

What is the likelihood too much CCA will impact me in a Discovery? - one in a million. The answer to the question is still valid, no matter how unlikely or remote. To answer binary “no” simply shows ignorance or lack of understanding - something I admit to until I did a wealth of research on the topic. A qualified answer shows a depth of knowledge.

Originally Posted by josh.huber

Honestly, I apologize for trying to add my experience to this post and the question posed.
Don't worry about it. This is pointless. Im wrong, Delco are wrong.

Simple

Hi Josh and your post was not in question, it is just that you can also burn out a starter motor with the correct CCA rated battery.

Originally Posted by drivesafe

Hi Josh and your post was not in question, it is just that you can also burn out a starter motor with the correct CCA rated battery.

.......and Lucas starter motors in the 1950's and 60's would burn out just because they wanted to.....

Ahhah!

http://www.billavista.com/tech/Artic...tion-Guide.pdf

Page 143 in the "Delco Remy Electrical Specifications & Selection Guide. Starters and Alternators"

It is recognized the cranking current is determined by the cranking conditions such as temperature, oil viscosity, and battery state of charge. Given those same conditions, the cranking current will be approximately the same with the use of either the high CCA battery(s) or standard battery(s). The user must be able to be cognizant of the fact that high CCA battery(s) enable the operator to crank for a longer period of time while attempting to start the engine, which could result in high starter temperatures. Starter burnout can occur under abusive cranking conditions, regardless of the type of battery(s) used. Starter burnout can be prevented by following the starter manufacturer’s recommendations, i.e., crank for a maximum of 30 seconds followed by a rest period of two minutes; or by using a starter that is equipped with a thermal protector.
The mechanical integrity of the starter can be severely taxed by greatly exceeding the CCA’s recommended by the engine manufacturer.

An OCP starter (as referred to in the data sheet Jeff attached) has a thermal sensor in the motor and disables when overheated.

So it's all about the ability to cook the starter based on "operator error".

okay ill take the bait....

i was going to write something that represented sarcasm here, but i have already bowed out of that

you posted
The mechanical integrity of the starter can be severely taxed by greatly exceeding the CCA’s recommended by the engine manufacturer.

This line from the bottom of your quote sums me up nicely.. it actually stands behind everything i said...

Jeffs quote doesnt Reference OCP starters, it references normal starters, it states that an OCP starter MUST be used whenever these CCA recommendations are exceeded. WHICH the D4 starter isnt

JUST for peoples information as it has been said you cant fit a battery like those figures on a D4 in reference to what jeff posted.
the 37mt is a 4.6kw starter with a limit of 1875CCA
the starter in my D4 is 2.0kw and my SSB88Ti is 1100CCA. \

so yes you can put a big battery in and they did.

anyway, AGAIN unless your engine is shagged, its more likely corona virus will kill your starter then too many batteries.

Originally Posted by josh.huber

Jeffs quote doesnt Reference OCP starters, it references normal starters, it states that an OCP starter MUST be used whenever these CCA recommendations are exceeded. WHICH the D4 starter isnt

There was no bait in that, more an "ah hah, I've found an explanation written by the same people who put the disclaimer in the data sheet that explains it pretty clearly". The concept of the OCP starter is that it has in-built thermal protection. That is there to protect against either overload or operator error. I interpret (perhaps incorrectly) that implies that if you use a small enough battery and a non-protected starter, the battery will die before you kill the starter or at least give it a fighting chance.

I read :

"It is recognized the cranking current is determined by the cranking conditions such as temperature, oil viscosity, and battery state of charge. Given those same conditions, the cranking current will be approximately the same with the use of either the high CCA battery(s) or standard battery(s)."

.. as "If you don't abuse the starter (either intentionally or mechanically) it doesn't matter what the battery is because it'll draw the same current regardless".

anyway, AGAIN unless your engine is shagged, its more likely corona virus will kill your starter then too many batteries.

This we agree on.

Edit : I'll call it here.

Originally Posted by BradC

There was no bait in that, more an "ah hah, I've found an explanation written by the same people who put the disclaimer in the data sheet that explains it pretty clearly". The concept of the OCP starter is that it has in-built thermal protection. That is there to protect against either overload or operator error. I interpret (perhaps incorrectly) that implies that if you use a small enough battery and a non-protected starter, the battery will die before you kill the starter or at least give it a fighting chance.

I read :

"It is recognized the cranking current is determined by the cranking conditions such as temperature, oil viscosity, and battery state of charge. Given those same conditions, the cranking current will be approximately the same with the use of either the high CCA battery(s) or standard battery(s)."

.. as "If you don't abuse the starter (either intentionally or mechanically) it doesn't matter what the battery is because it'll draw the same current regardless".



This we agree on.

My apologies mate, I was home schooling and debating dinner options when I misread or misinterpreted it.