how often is too often (servicing) - some questions

So it goes without saying, the money made on a vehicle is predominantly from servicing not the sale. I hear some saying what? Yes, by the time a car is designed, manufactured, distributed, margins paid along the way, profits are small percentages. Dealer serving is lucrative. Marked up parts, high labour rates etc. Servicing also supports the dealer network so there is actually somewhere to buy the car in the first place.

A manufacturer is balancing a lucrative servicing business that supports dealers while competing with the market, both competitors and expectations. After all, if you're servicing at 10k intervals but the competition is 20k, in comparison your vehicle is more expensive to maintain in product comparisons. This is compounded by emission controls, environmental expectations and the like.

The double of service intervals by LR will be a balance of all those factors that caught up with them. It is also supported by a capability of the oil product to support it.

Again, no one worries if you (the community) still want to service more frequently - but it's unfair to judge people with statements like 'oil can't possibly last that long' or 'that car's a lemon as they followed the factory interval of 26k'. As per the article below, oil is more than capable. I'm not saying anyone has, but general thought that's harping back to bygone era [emoji6]

About Oil Drain Intervals - oilspecifications.org

"Oil drain intervals get longer though. The well known 5000 mile oil change interval is largely a thing of the past now. As oils get better and better the longer they can do their job. Modern additive packages ensure that oils last a long time and withstand the heat and contamination for longer than they used to several decades ago. Many car manufacturers allow extended oil change intervals and some cars even keep track of the oil's condition"

And finally, to contradict, is it in LR's interest for them to last forever? See, I can play both sides of the coin [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I assume harder-worked engines are more likely to get hotter than normal and accelerate oil breakdown. Is that right?

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Funny thing though - experts have typically claimed that you don't want to buy a diesel that has not been worked hard. Yet buyers of used Discos seem to want the shopping trolley cars - but they are the ones that have had lots of short runs. Perhaps the buying public do not know what they are doing?

I guess too - there are different styles of diesel motors. Many have come from car motors too - and IMO they share distillate, but resemble more petrol engine philosophies. VW Golf diesels were the first of those motors IMO.

Looking at Prados - the 3 litre turbo diesel was a slug and the D4D common rail 3 litre was a far better performing motor. But ... the earlier motor keeps on keeping on. The D4D explodes without warning, and your up for $10k or more, and Toyota don't care. Many report that towing contributes, as do tuning chips. Despite their constant oil changes,. The cure evidently is to change the injectors, and to test the injector function at every service. But Toyota typically don't test the injector function at service. I don't know whether LR test their injector function either.

Our motors are quite unusual IMO and evidently they are not cheap to make. Their block material is different to what was used before in car diesels. And perhaps, I suspect they might be over engineered due to the "first time" nature of their engine block metal.

Another issue though with diesel lubrication oil is that it gets soot in it. The LR unit is said to be cleaner than for instance Toyota diesels. But the black oil look which is smooth to the touch - evidently that is due to very fine soot. Evidently the soot is finer than oil filters and if it clumps up, it can gather in the sump and start blocking circulation. Sort of like cholesterol does in getting older man. But the older man has to change his life style and eat less and well and exercise much more. While with your LR diesel - all you have to do is give it an extra oil change.

Or filter more.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

I would imagine that advertising a vehicle that only needs to be serviced once a year or every 24,000ks makes it a Good selling point [bigwhistle]

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Possibly,but then Toyota sell more vehicles in this country than any other vehicle manufacturer,by a huge margin,and most if not all of them,apart from a few Camry models have service intervals of 10000k or six months whatever comes first.

This is way more often than industry standard.

FRom my experience,and I run a fleet of Toyota vans,all serviced at the local stealer,they also don't charge the rediculous exorbitant servicing prices that some other manufacturers,such as LR charge.Just using LR as an example,many other European manufacturers also do the same.

Looking only at hourly rates,LR charge just under double the fleet rate we get at Toyota.

Some may say the Toyotas are serviced twice as often,true,but it is still cheaper as their fluids are way cheaper,and as said,so is labour rates.

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Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

Another issue though with diesel lubrication oil is that it gets soot in it. The LR unit is said to be cleaner than for instance Toyota diesels. But the black oil look which is smooth to the touch - evidently that is due to very fine soot. Evidently the soot is finer than oil filters and if it clumps up, it can gather in the sump and start blocking circulation. Sort of like cholesterol does in getting older man. But the older man has to change his life style and eat less and well and exercise much more. While with your LR diesel - all you have to do is give it an extra oil change.

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Most modern diesels are far better at avoiding soot loading of the oil from the increased efficiency of the common rail injection system. So any soot in the oil will still turn it black as the oil does its job. You really cant tell how much soot is in oil by its colour - example my old 1HZ engine in my 80 series used to have around 2% soot in the oil after 10,000km (and a 10L oil sump too) where as the TDV6 in the disco is around .6 - .7% soot after 15,000km (and with half the oil capacity). In both engines the oil was black doesnt really look or feel any differently.
One of the jobs of the oil detergent is to prevent the soot particles from coagulating together and forming sludge. It does this by coating the soot particle so it doesn't stick to another soot particle and ensures that the contamination is removed during an oil change.

I have just had my D4 serviced & according to my GAP tool, the next service will be in 25k km.
I had done 15k km since the previous service & the dash was already telling me that I needed a service.
My question is does the car calculate when the next service is due by taking into account loads, temperatures etc?

Time or distance, which ever comes first, I expect.

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Originally Posted by scarry

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Looking only at hourly rates,LR charge just under double the fleet rate we get at Toyota.

Some may say the Toyotas are serviced twice as often,true,but it is still cheaper as their fluids are way cheaper,and as said,so is labour rates.

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Toyota also give fixed priced servicing for 3 years.

However, various dealerships will rip you off. I took a Camry Grande V6 2006 when it was 6 years old (and had just 4k on it) to Brighton Toyota in Nepean Highway, and I said fully service it. They rang and said "do everything that's needed" and said yes - they charged me $1,400!!! The same dealership charged me the fixed price charge for a Prado ($210 I think) and then they charged me over $100 for oil. I took the car to Werribee Toyota for a service (the Prado) and they changed all the lubricants, did the brake fluid, diffs, and they charged me $210 all up.

I guess it depends which dealership you go to. Obviously fleet gets a much better deal than a bunny like me does!!!

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Originally Posted by shanegtr

Most modern diesels are far better at avoiding soot loading of the oil from the increased efficiency of the common rail injection system. So any soot in the oil will still turn it black as the oil does its job. You really cant tell how much soot is in oil by its colour - example my old 1HZ engine in my 80 series used to have around 2% soot in the oil after 10,000km (and a 10L oil sump too) where as the TDV6 in the disco is around .6 - .7% soot after 15,000km (and with half the oil capacity). In both engines the oil was black doesnt really look or feel any differently. ...

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Do you know how much distillate was in the lubrication oil in the TDV6 at 15k? I guess you must be changing the oil at 15k or was that 12 months and you change annually?

Also with changing the oil - if I take my Disco (still under LR warranty) to a third party LR specialist, can they record an oil change on LR's web based service records?

Talking of contaminants, how many here plan to block of their exhaust gas recirculation? Those things fill up the motor with crab ... I don't know if LR specialists regularly block those things off.