2.7 and 3.0 Td V6 Crankshaft Bearing Failure known manufacturing fault

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Originally Posted by KDJ02

I have a late 2012 discovery 4 3.0lt tdv6 purchased in mid/late 2013. 95,000 in the clock
I had the disco booked in for a service on Monday but couldn’t make it. On Tuesday I was driving along & started hearing a tapping sound like a turbo fan or fan belt issue, I then heard what I thought was a fan belt break & lost power immediately & the battery light came on. I pulled over couldn’t start it & had RACQ tow it to a very reputable mechanic.
They have told me that the oil was very low & the engine seized. We are looking at $24,000 for a 2nd hand engine install.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
The boss is in tears.

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I had the same problem but I had still another 3000 kms left for service and I had just bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer just randomly while driving exactly same thing happened, contacted head office of LR but one guy in Sydney head office is Saying no to them replacing the engine so now need to buy a second hand engine for 15k and if I go from LR they want 38k

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Originally Posted by Mreren10

I had the same problem but I had still another 3000 kms left for service and I had just bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer just randomly while driving exactly same thing happened, contacted head office of LR but one guy in Sydney head office is Saying no to them replacing the engine so now need to buy a second hand engine for 15k and if I go from LR they want 38k

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Sorry to hear your pain.

Once these vehicles get a bit of age on them,unfortunately,they will not be viable to repair.

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Originally Posted by PerthDisco

Doesn’t look too hard [emoji15]

In Pt2 he comments on the location of the oil filter a long way away from the oil pump and upside down so as not to retain oil.

YouTube

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IMO not a problem where the filter is in relation to the pump and a vertical filter isn't an issue if it has an anti-drain back valve.

FWIW full flow filters really only catch large bits of debris, although filler media is making strides these days.
Today really good synthetic media is rated at beta2=6, not that long ago standard media was around beta 2=28-30 (50% of 28-30 micron particles are caught in a multi pass SAE test)

He makes a lot of statements not really founded in fact, but mere guesswork. Bearing tangs do not stop bearings from spinning if the bearing makes enough contact with the crankshaft. Tangs are only there to assist with assembly. I’ve seen enough spun bearings that had tangs.

Bearings retain oil at shutdown and that oil will do a reasonable job of protecting the bearings until oil pressure rises and load increases. I’m not sure how much additional wear is caused by the extended journey to the top and down again. I agree with Rick that if non return valves are employed it should be negligible, though there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

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Originally Posted by Mreren10

I had the same problem but I had still another 3000 kms left for service and I had just bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer just randomly while driving exactly same thing happened, contacted head office of LR but one guy in Sydney head office is Saying no to them replacing the engine so now need to buy a second hand engine for 15k and if I go from LR they want 38k

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I am sorry to hear that.
What year is your vehicle?
When did it happen?
If it is AFTER the date of the Service Bulletins SSM71816 and SSM72928 then LR don't have a leg to stand on.

Regardless, suggest you take a copy of the relevant TWO Service Bulletins and go see a lawyer who specialises in Class Actions.
There is enough anecdotal evidence and data around on the web from various countries (some of whom have done recalls by LR) to help you with this.
With respect, I would expect only one phone call to LR Sydney head office to have nil effect.
It'll take some serious letters from a lawyer to make them think about changing their attitude.

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

He makes a lot of statements not really founded in fact, but mere guesswork. Bearing tangs do not stop bearings from spinning if the bearing makes enough contact with the crankshaft. Tangs are only there to assist with assembly. I’ve seen enough spun bearings that had tangs.

Bearings retain oil at shutdown and that oil will do a reasonable job of protecting the bearings until oil pressure rises and load increases. I’m not sure how much additional wear is caused by the extended journey to the top and down again. I agree with Rick that if non return valves are employed it should be negligible, though there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

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Not disagreeing re tangs but every engine I've siezed has never spun the bearing..most recent a Perkins tractor engine where a stick holed the filter. It siezed with a thud...damage was bearing material on some journals..easily fixed..and all new bearings thereafter. Non of the shells had spun. Had the same on a Cat D4..again no shells spun.

Now what difference tangs might makes in terms of the level of destruction....I don't really know..but I'd rather have them than not😞

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

He makes a lot of statements not really founded in fact, but mere guesswork. Bearing tangs do not stop bearings from spinning if the bearing makes enough contact with the crankshaft. Tangs are only there to assist with assembly. I’ve seen enough spun bearings that had tangs.

Bearings retain oil at shutdown and that oil will do a reasonable job of protecting the bearings until oil pressure rises and load increases. I’m not sure how much additional wear is caused by the extended journey to the top and down again. I agree with Rick that if non return valves are employed it should be negligible, though there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

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I definitely agree on the fact that it’s an oil rich environment down there and there must be enough retained oil film to get it through the 1-3 seconds until pressure is there.

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

there does seems to be a level of drain back, though not sure how much - but enough that you can at least change the filter without a mess.

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As soon as you loosen the filter housing it admits air to displace the remaining oil which drains away. I sill have to leave it for 10s of seconds to be able to remove it without making a mess.

Just a note on how oil works in a plain bearing.
Pressure doesnt support the journal, the relative movement of the journal in the bearing promotes a hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.
Think of a simple engine like a B&S, they use splash feed bearings. Yes, they use slingers on the big ends to throw oil, but they don't use an oil pump.

Oil under pressure fed into the bearing prevents the oil and bearing overheating by replacing the oil in the bearing with cooler oil from the sump, but it's the action of that hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Just a note on how oil works in a plain bearing.
Pressure doesnt support the journal, the relative movement of the journal in the bearing promotes a hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.
Think of a simple engine like a B&S, they use splash feed bearings. Yes, they use slingers on the big ends to throw oil, but they don't use an oil pump.

Oil under pressure fed into the bearing prevents the oil and bearing overheating by replacing the oil in the bearing with cooler oil from the sump, but it's the action of that hydrodynamic wedge of oil that supports the journal.

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Agreed, i would expect the film thickness to perhaps 100-200 microns (0.1 to 0.2mm) at best (or worst if really badly worn, depends how you look at it) perhaps less. Therefore heavily contaminated oil with lots of carbon or soot in it (remember what diamonds are made of) will quickly cause metal to metal contact and disrupt any boundary layers and ultimately the hydrodynamic oil film. I think the bigger issue is perhaps the oil gallery design. I believe theres only one (need to confirm this), wheras with two, theres still a fighting chance of not destroying the bearing and crank completely. Tang or no tang, i believe he is correct regarding service intervals, and most on here agree that the LR factory interval is simply too long.