Thread: D3 or Jap 4x4

Originally Posted by theh33d

Hello Folks

First off excellent forum with some fantastic posts/information

I will start off with a bit of back ground on my story and why I am here rambling on, I will try to keep this post as short as possible.
Im Scottish and lucky enough to now live in Australia (5 years) used to own a Mitsubishi Pajero (short wheel base) grey import. Loved the car and only sold to lack of space (baby + big dog)
I am now looking at owning a proper 4x4 as our Nissan x-trail does the wife proud but we need more space and ability as we are now camping again even though the wife swore she wouldn't as every creature in Australia just wants to poison you (her words) also we have talked about doing the big lap of Australia at some point. [SNIP]

So after much rambling I am looking for some pointers
Do I follow my heart and own a D3 and the expected running costs or go with the Jap option.
I know it's a stupid question to ask on a Land Rover forum but where else will I get genuine owner experience of a D3 against the Google searches.

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Not sure if you've gone ahead and purchased the D3. - if you are interested we've just returned from a 12 month / 65,000 km tour of the country in a 2007 D3 - it had 130,000 when we bought it and is now about to hit 200K.

There are many many tales I can tell about the scrapes we got into (and mostly out of!) but in summary - if I was doing it again, I would be taking a Landcruiser. Not because I don't love the Landy but just because support is so hard to get once you leave the main centres. We got dumped by the side of the road twice by the vehicle. Once in the Flinders Ranges when a wheel bearing went, which needed a tow to Adelaide and then 100km south of Alice - which ended up also requiring having the car put on a truck and carted back to Adelaide for a new motor (ouch!) after the seal on the oil pump failed catastrophically and dumped all the oil on the road.

So - if you ar just going a few 100km out of town camping, then the D3 will do anything and get you anywhere. But if you are serious about doing the big lap, then sorry, but I'd go Toyota.

Work colleague had a D2. Went everywhere in it. Sold it and bought a 100 series Landcruiser. First trip away flogged out all the suspension. Bought a Prado (57,000k's only). Got to Mt Isa and had to replace injectors (over $7000!). Got home sold it and bought a Hi Lux. Now selling that and going back to LR, a D4 this time. He can't wait to get rid of the HiLux and get back in a Disco.

Other friend had Prado 2010 from new that had got to just over 300,000ks'. Driving home from Brisbane on the Bruce Highway, big bang and oil everywhere. Got it towed back to dealer where he bought it from and their response was 'how long did you want it to last for? That's good millage these days, can't complain about that". Needless to say he didn't buy another one (but he did buy a Pajero!).

Brother in-law bought brand new 3L Patrol. Around 40,000ks later started having sensor problems, and of course, the dreaded 5th gear problem. Sold that quickly! Bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee. All going well until 1 month out of warrantee. Went to start it one morning, no go. Couldn't even unlock it and had to use the key. Then it wouldn't start. Turned out to be the body computer - $5000 later, then he sold it.

Best mate bought a 2015 Navara. Absolute HOS, reckons it's the worst car he's every owned. He's had ongoing gearbox issue where it locks into third gear. Had it repaired / part replaced THREE times! Then wife ran into a car in front. Low speed impact, no air bag triggered. Was told that needed airbag sensors replaced in front bar. They have been without the car for over 3 months waiting for this one part (allegedly none in existence and can't take them off another vehicle). Car is perfectly driveable, but they won't release it until this is fixed!

Another mate in his HiLux went up to Fraser last Christmas and came home with the top of his rear canopy 4 inches further away from the bottom of it. Bent both chassis rails half way through the bend over the wheel arches. He had to replace the entire chassis with a new one. That was over 2 months off the road. I also believe there is a class action out in the USA at the moment against Nissan because the Navara's are doing the same thing!

I guess my point is, nothing is bullet-proof. Everything has it's problems and they can all potentially end up costing you a small fortune and letting you down. For my money, I go with what I love and what will give me the most enjoyment. So I guess, look after whatever it is, shower it with kindness and maintenance and maybe, just maybe, it will love you back - at least for a little while!

Originally Posted by Nomad9

Hi There,
So, I have recently returned from a trip up North, I HAD a RRS TDV8, as mentioned in so many of the other posts these are a beautiful vehicle, yes a bit smaller inside than a TDV6 D3 which I have also had, again a very comfortable vehicle, economical etc etc. I did an EGR valve whilst driving around at home, this was open heart surgery replacing this to put it lightly, then my top thermostat housing cracked unbeknown to me after leaking slightly for several months into the V valley, no harm don't I replaced the housing.
Getting back to the TDV8 last year on the way back from Broome in Denham the alternator crapped itself, the mechanic in Denham opened the bonnet promptly told me "he was going in there" and shut it again. I had to get the vehicle and the camper trailer trucked back to Perth, thank you RAC, I will remain a member for the rest of my life. My wife and I had to catch the Grey hound bus back to Perth, I will NVER put my wife or myself through an experience like that again, it was horrendous, we laugh about it now however at the time it was quite disturbing. Being verbally abused and putting up with some of the smells released from various orifices by other indigenous travellers who I suspect had been drinking since Port Headand was not pleasant.
This year on the way to Marble Bar going up the coastal road when I stopped at Karratha I noticed soot on the back window, various members from AULRO talked me through various things to check and do, we completed the holiday with no further incidents apart from using between 3 to 4 more litres / 100, the vehicle seemed to return to normal after a week being home. However this was to close to turning into another nightmare trip home.

On my return to home I / we decided to sell the TDV8 and I now have a 2014 3.0 Hilux dual cab, it is not a patch on the comfort of the RRS, it doesn't have any of the refinements of luxury travel, fuel economy is great, I have access to a plethora of accessories and if I need them I can get spare parts from Repco or Super Cheap. There is no forum, there is no LR wave and all the other stuff that goes with owning an iconic brand.

Saying that my primary vehicle, my daily drive is my beautiful Rimini Red RRS N/A 4.4 V8, it is a pleasure to drive in all aspects of driving, goes like a stabbed rat, sounds awesome, pretty damn economical, relatively simple to maintain and it doesn't break. Being a petrol I got this one pretty cheap, easily justifiable in the petrol V diesel argument, personally wouldn't have another LR diesel, would have a go at a 3.0 diesel they seem to have a good rap. However I have to try a 4.2 supercharged RRS yet, might give one of them a go in the next couple of years, yes they like a drink, bit more complex however would like t think it would be fun.

I've done the Patrol thing, done the Land Cruiser thing, just love my Land Rovers, the Hilux has been bought for a specific reason for a trip next year to Kununurra up the GRR, could well need a few chiropractor appointments on my return, plus a couple of teeth but at least I'll get there and back, and if anything does go wrong a mechanic won't look at me like I landed from the planet Zod when I rock up at the workshop. some times you just have to do what you have to do.

Cheers Marty

Can I ask why the mechanic couldn't simply unbolt one alternator and bolt on another? Was there a reason he couldn't do what is often a relatively simple job?

Hi DiscoMick,

I changed the alternator myself when I got home, have you ever done the alternator on a TDV8 RRS? If only the job was just a case of undoing the bolts and installing a new one. After I had changed the alternator I understood why the mechanic chose to fix the Land Cruisers and Patrols he had in his garage, two of each both waiting for parts, he was actually working on a Prado replacing the engine when he towed my vehicle into his garage.

For one he didn't have the parts they had to be ordered in, the alternator was $750 from Adelaide via express postage, mine broke on a Friday so it would be at least the following Tuesday before he was able to start my vehicle. He had never done one before and he just didn't want the headache of trying to figure it out I suppose, Oh and add at to that the battery was fried, couldn't even get the doors open at one point. No battery of the right size and power available. I think I have attached a picture of the location of the alternator, see if you think this is still a simple job, and this is after I have removed the wheel and the innr arch protector, and the earth straps.

DSCN2824.jpg

Cheers Marty

To the original post,

D3/D4 is the way if you want a vehicle you can live with every day. Many of the others are tractors in comparison of ride quality. The jap 4x4s all hold their price higher than the LRs, that is simply a supply and demand issue. Not many people are likely to buy into an LR second hand unless they have some prior knowledge, most non LR people think that LR parts are much more expensive and less available than the jap parts. I am sure you will find a few stories of jap parts, that are expensive and have to wait for them to come in from o/s.

Out in the outback people tend to stick to what they know, mechanics don't like to experiment on a new brand. A lot of working 4x4are jap and mechanics like to stick to what they know. On a trip when at Kununurra a local mechanic had trouble repairing a tyre on a disco2 alloy rim, he swore he would never work on an LR again. He had never encountered a rim setup for a tubeless tyre where the inside lip is higher everywhere except near the valve. (I am sure that feature has a name, something like a safety lip).

As for the RR alternator, some of those are a body off job to get access to the alternator. But this is just a consequence of new design practices where maintenance is not high on the agenda and they stick a lot into a small space.

I'd go with the low mileage petrol D3 if you don't do many miles.

Originally Posted by garethbrown2670@gmail.com

I've owned a D3 V6 Petrol (5 years) and a D4 2.7V6 Diesel (5 years).

The petrol is a relatively "agricultural" engine (i.e. a bit noisy, harsh), but otherwise pretty reliable.

Both vehicles have common issues with the front end bushes (essentially need replacing every 70-100,000 k's - simple wear issue) and a non-robust Air Compressor. The Air Compressors have a l...o...n...g history but LR seems to have FINALLY gotten on top of the issue with the current part. We've had our current compressor (from the new Manufacturer - Japanese I think???) for 3 years without any issue at all.

Aside from the Air Compressor, the Air Suspension itself is rock solid, and a massive improvement over any kind of spring solution. We've drove our D4 at 80 kph, in complete comfort, to and from Mitchell Falls in the NT when every vehicle around us was destroying their (pick any brand) shock absorbers doing 20-30k's and hating every mile of travel.

The Patrol is actually NOT as reliable as what their owners will tell you. There's some pretty nasty (and very expensive) weaknesses in the Gearboxes (look up "Patrol 5th gear towing issues") and the 3.0L engines (plenty of people with engine rebuilds). The vehicles also tend to overheat pretty easily. When in the RRCV in Vic (mostly Patrols, LandCruisers, Discos) we often saw Patrols overheat in the High Country valleys - any long uphills with a tailwind (i.e. low forced airflow through the radiator). And the standard suspension is truly ****e. There's a good reason why all the owners replace the suspension.

AND you'll feel like you're driving something not-too-far-removed from a Massey Ferguson tractor. Try one and see!!!

Discos certainly aren't perfect, and in general the older the more failures you'll see (beyond 200,000-250,000k's). But the alternatives aren't necessarily all they're cracked up to be.

Good luck!

Having just coming back from Cape York on hundreds of miles of horrendous corregations at GVM I can tell you that Bilsteins provide excellent ride and no fade in my D2. With us was a D4 and D3. They both rode as well as the D2 although the D3 kept squatting at night on one corner (turned out to be a connection). Unfortunately the D3 came back from the top end via boat then car transporter largely because the mechanics in remote places don't know them and don't have the expertise and gear to fix them. It didn't like water crossings and developed a CDL fault. Unfortunaty in remote areas having a Jap 4wd can still be an advantage if you break down and that wont change. Cheers

Originally Posted by Nomad9

Hi DiscoMick,

I changed the alternator myself when I got home, have you ever done the alternator on a TDV8 RRS? If only the job was just a case of undoing the bolts and installing a new one. After I had changed the alternator I understood why the mechanic chose to fix the Land Cruisers and Patrols he had in his garage, two of each both waiting for parts, he was actually working on a Prado replacing the engine when he towed my vehicle into his garage.

For one he didn't have the parts they had to be ordered in, the alternator was $750 from Adelaide via express postage, mine broke on a Friday so it would be at least the following Tuesday before he was able to start my vehicle. He had never done one before and he just didn't want the headache of trying to figure it out I suppose, Oh and add at to that the battery was fried, couldn't even get the doors open at one point. No battery of the right size and power available. I think I have attached a picture of the location of the alternator, see if you think this is still a simple job, and this is after I have removed the wheel and the innr arch protector, and the earth straps.

DSCN2824.jpg

Cheers Marty

Ah yes, I wondered if that might be the reason. Thanks.

After going over my options time and again I have decided to go with a D3 petrol V6.
I made an offer on the D3 I test drove last week and I collect the car tomorrow.
Really looking forward to getting to grips with the D3 and putting some K's on it. Wife is already planning our next road trip.
We plan to do a quarter lap of Oz next year so I will be going through the threads looking for ideas for the D3 before the trip.
I will upload a photo or twenty once I have the D3 home.

Thanks again for the advise and as mentioned before great forum guys keep it up.