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I'm in no position to verify the veracity or otherwise but this quote from the Disco3 link I posted above:Quote:
Originally Posted by donh54
Whilst Mannol (SCT) and ZF are both German companies the specification and additives of their ATFs are actually from a Dutch company called Infineum. Infineum is a joint venture between ExxonMobil and Shell, so reasonably large in the scheme of things.
David
The good thing about that Mannol product is they state in writing that it’s compatible...Quote:
Originally Posted by l00kin4
So you have some protection there.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...pdf?1511170487
State in writing it’s compatible?
So does Motul, see link.
Sorry but some of you guys need to do some research - LG6 is not made by ZF it is made by Shell - it is Shell M13754. All listed in the genuine LR workshop manual.
So there is no real incentive for zf to restrict approvals for other oils.
Garry
And being a Shell oil it'll use an Infineum add pack who you will find have an exclusivity arrangement with ZF/Shell and won't release it to other blenders.
It can be reverse engineered, but that takes $$ and AFAIK only the major additive suppliers like RT Vanderbilt and Lubrizol are in a position to be able to do that, and with reverse engineering it may not result in an identical product either.
Blenders such as Penrite tend to only use one additive supplier too, e.g. AFAIK Penrite use Lubrizol.
Sometimes you can get away with a newer multi functional ATF with some older transmissions, I'm doing that at that moment with a 4HP22E as the frictional requirements are only equivalent to an old Dex IIIH spec, but for the cost of the approved fluid with the six/seven/eight speed transmissions vs the cost of a rebuild.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
Im still at a loss to understand WHY people want to use a different oil to the manufacturer?? Is it a 'I'm smarter than you' or 'I'm not paying an extra $100 to service my $6000 transmission correctly' thing??
Its not that difficult. Use Lifeguard fluid and if you want to get it cheaper then do it yourself after buying a 20l drum...
Sheeesh.
If i get a request to service one using non LG oils i will suggest they should be doing it themselves...
Jc
Yep, spot on as usual JC [smilebigeye]Quote:
Originally Posted by justinc
I think there's several potential reasons Justin.Quote:
Originally Posted by justinc
I know that in the past I always thought I knew better, I could do better, that what was recommended wasn't 'the best'
Then I started to work with people in the industry and study this stuff....
A combination of vanity and ignorance.
Most everyone has a fractious relationship with money regardless of how much or little they possess, and it comes out in interesting ways.
"I have a vehicle that's worth $xx,000 dollars but there's no way I'll pay $40/litre for bloody oil when I can buy ATF at SuperursonsCoepco for $17/litre!"
Others in the same situation will go all out and spend too much, over servicing, etc.
Some swing from one extreme to the other, penny pinching to spendthrift and most have no idea they're doing it. (hand in the air!)
I've had some really interesting conversations over the years with a psychologist about this.
I ****ing love psychology. probably why I'm studying it [biggrin]
I love playing devils advocate. I get some form of pleasure from it lol.
So it is very true that in the past a number of oils have not performed well in the ZF transmissions and switching back resolved this. SOME of the new alternatives now behave the same as the LG oil and are on average half the price RRP. Yes I’m aware that LG can be had on special, but so can alternatives.
As to whether they offer worse longevity? Hard to say. There are however enough gearboxes being rebuilt that have always run LG oil so it’s not the saviour it’s made out to be. Now whether anyone can say that said gearbox would have needed a rebuilt in half the time if running alternative oil? Unclear. The data is not out there.
What I find odd in this whole argument is we’re happy to use Penrite (An Australian small producer by all standards), only because they claim to meet the standards defined, yet when another provider of ATF makes similar claims to meeting Shell M1375.4 we shun them?
I think you may be confusing the convo a bit DJ.. nobody is using Penrite in their 6 speed...
At this stage, though, you are correct! Me and several others are shunning the alternatives being offered / claiming full compatibility.
An extra $100 over 2-3 years for the factory approved oil is nothing from my perspective.
Much can be said for pattern parts, many are acceptable - however it was highlighted to me some time ago and confirmed my own observations.. in this case it was Cooling system hoses.
They had made pattern parts early in the life of the Model. These parts are still made today, and good quality and quite cheap. However during the model life the factory improved the hose design,allowing it to route slightly differently and improving a few joins. They didn’t announce this. So the factory parts fit better, don’t rub etc where as the pattern parts do.
There is potential that this can happen with blended fluids also.
So in cases where it may be a margin call I tend to err on the side of Genuine.