Front and rear diffs - oil full of metal flake

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

My diff had the same on the plug. So? Every diff I’ve ever changed has? There is a reason they put a magnet on them! My diffs are going fine.
Yes of course Mechanics see failures. That’s the nature of the job. For the 100 they’ve seen, that’s a percentage of how many built?

I guess my point is there seems to be an unfounded view that oil changes need to follow the change intervals of the crude mineral oil days, yet the oil quality is far improved. At least the commercial fleet has seen the light and also run extended intervals. Saves them a fortune. And yes, when their mining diesels fail it’s a huge expense, so they’re making these decisions to run extended based on empirical data.

Unquestionably it won’t hurt to change every oil every 10000km, but required??????? There’s a lot of indi scaremongering going on to drum up consistent work IMHO. After all, it’s not like unnecessary oil changes will result in a failure - quite the opposite, however I’m not convinced some of the km intervals mentioned are in the customer’s best back pocket interests.

I finally should add, if you’re not doing school runs and instead beating up the bush or towing then you should follow the arduous service schedule unquestionably!

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I agree - there are plenty of vehicles out there will poor service histories that us mechanics don't see. Some fail, some don't.. But I wouldn't buy one. I have posted here before about a toyota I serviced with near to 1,000,000kms between oil changes - so go figure. This isn't scaremongering at all - it is our empirical data.

Oils haven't come that far and any advance is lost with for example with lower diff capacities. I wouldn't be spending $70,000+ on a vehicle and then go blindly and trust a sealed for life statement and long service intervals. If you were going to turn it over in 40,000km then maybe this doesn't matter to you. But if you were holding on to your vehicle for longer, I'd change some oils. If you have spent $70,000+ you can afford a couple of hundred every now and then for oil changes.

City dweller equates to arduous use. Stop start is almost worse that outback towing.

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Originally Posted by garrycol

City dweller equates to arduous use. Stop start is almost worse that outback towing.

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No argument here, Garry. Short trips are deadly. Acids, condensation, dry starts, etc. 112k in 10 years.... do the maths. I do that easily every 3 years. I was referring more to what would generally be perceived as 'gentle use', 'one lady owner' and 'immaculate service history'.

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Originally Posted by Arch

^^this. I would add that from my personal experience that even servicing from independent mechanics can be hit and miss as well. You need to inspect for yourself that the work has been carried out.

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I agree.

I recently had my D4 serviced for the first time by an Indie. I stated that the car had always been serviced by a big LR dealership and was unsure of the quality of the work done, as their general support had been hit and miss over the years.

So I asked him to not only carry out the logbook servicing but to give the car a good once over. I also booked a wheel alignment.

In general discussion I was bemused that a guy who spruiks his cred and experience, spanning years, didn't even know what LLAMS was. I thought most Indies would be up on mods. LLAMS has been around since D3.....probably over a decade.

The reason LLAMS came up was the fact that I mentioned mine had the system fitted and that I believed without the 'Loop' plug, you can't test the suspension properly.....assuming they might want to test things in accordance with my 'check everything' brief! I just ran out of time to figure out how to fit the plug myself. Thought they might know.

I picked the car up and was told that they had been too busy to get the wheel alignment done....not happy Jan! Then when I asked if the guys had found anything of concern in the car, he shrugged and said that the Techs hadn't reported anything.

I left with a less than confident feeling. I feel I got nothing more than an oil and filter change.

Not a 100% sure .... but I just can't shake the feeling that he didn't actually tell the guys to do anything other than the service.

Sure, he was a lot cheaper than LR but it kind of defeats the point if the Indie is just as disinterested as a LR Dealership.

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

My diff had the same on the plug. So? Every diff I’ve ever changed has? There is a reason they put a magnet on them! My diffs are going fine.
Yes of course Mechanics see failures. That’s the nature of the job. For the 100 they’ve seen, that’s a percentage of how many built?

I guess my point is there seems to be an unfounded view that oil changes need to follow the change intervals of the crude mineral oil days, yet the oil quality is far improved. At least the commercial fleet has seen the light and also run extended intervals. Saves them a fortune. And yes, when their mining diesels fail it’s a huge expense, so they’re making these decisions to run extended based on empirical data.

Unquestionably it won’t hurt to change every oil every 10000km, but required??????? There’s a lot of indi scaremongering going on to drum up consistent work IMHO. After all, it’s not like unnecessary oil changes will result in a failure - quite the opposite, however I’m not convinced some of the km intervals mentioned are in the customer’s best back pocket interests.

I finally should add, if you’re not doing school runs and instead beating up the bush or towing then you should follow the arduous service schedule unquestionably!

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I went to an Indie recently and he was adamant that 5 - 7.5K klms was the max you should do on the engine oil.... he didn't believe any of the manufacturer hype at all.

I used to water ski with a guy years ago that had a Holden 308 powered Lewis ski boat. He purchased from a guy who worked for BP and swore that he changed the oil every week. He was running Corse+. We all took that with a grain of salt until oil appeared in the bilge. Some of the ski-crew were engine guys in the RAAF ... which means they get training in a lot of propulsion systems. They pulled the engine out so that they could get a better look, since the leak wasn't obvious above the deck line.

They might have been taking the micky out of me but they recon the dip stick had perforated the tube housing or somewhere in the engine where the dipstick goes (long time ago). Cause? ..... checking the oil too often .... [bigrolf]

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Originally Posted by DiscoClax

I was referring more to what would generally be perceived as 'gentle use', 'one lady owner' and 'immaculate service history'.

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Yes I know - but equates to hard use and poor service history [bigsmile]

Good on you Garry :) Spot on.

Perception vs Reality.

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Originally Posted by Celtoid

I agree.

I recently had my D4 serviced for the first time by an Indie. I stated that the car had always been serviced by a big LR dealership and was unsure of the quality of the work done, as their general support had been hit and miss over the years.

So I asked him to not only carry out the logbook servicing but to give the car a good once over. I also booked a wheel alignment.

In general discussion I was bemused that a guy who spruiks his cred and experience, spanning years, didn't even know what LLAMS was. I thought most Indies would be up on mods. LLAMS has been around since D3.....probably over a decade.

The reason LLAMS came up was the fact that I mentioned mine had the system fitted and that I believed without the 'Loop' plug, you can't test the suspension properly.....assuming they might want to test things in accordance with my 'check everything' brief! I just ran out of time to figure out how to fit the plug myself. Thought they might know.

I picked the car up and was told that they had been too busy to get the wheel alignment done....not happy Jan! Then when I asked if the guys had found anything of concern in the car, he shrugged and said that the Techs hadn't reported anything.

I left with a less than confident feeling. I feel I got nothing more than an oil and filter change.

Not a 100% sure .... but I just can't shake the feeling that he didn't actually tell the guys to do anything other than the service.

Sure, he was a lot cheaper than LR but it kind of defeats the point if the Indie is just as disinterested as a LR Dealership.

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Hmm,seems you need to find another Indie.It would be interesting to know what suburb they were in...

Been to mine since 2004,never had an issue,and i am bloody fussy.....Son goes there as well.

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Originally Posted by scarry

Hmm,seems you need to find another Indie.It would be interesting to know what suburb they were in...

Been to mine since 2004,never had an issue,and i am bloody fussy.....Son goes there as well.

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I'll PM you.

I plan to do my diff oils every 50,000km. Im a bit out of the ordinary and have all my oils regularly sampled and tested so Im getting a good idea of how long things can go. I can tell in you in my case after 50,000km the front diff has around 600ppm iron content - the rear around 3-400ppm. The front diff I believe definitely struggles with the smaller oil capacity compared to the rear and for the front Im happy with 50k - rear could probably go out to 70k easily before the contamination levels match the front