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Thread: 08 D3 TDV6 P117D-00

  1. #1
    BradC is online now Super Moderator
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    08 D3 TDV6 P117D-00

    G'day all,

    Got home this morning to find my wife decanting the kids car seats from the Antichrist, the air blue with profanities.

    I took it for a drive. Backed out of the drive, put it in first and planted my foot. Dash lights up, suspension drops and it's in limp mode.
    Turn it off and back on again, and the same procedure repeats. So limped it back home and hooked up the IIDTool. Cleared all faults (there were loads there from other stuff I'd done on the car recently) and repeated the procedure. Immediately got the same deal, leading to :

    Engine TDV6


    • P117D-00 (2F) Fuel volume regulator control exceeded maximum control limit

    Parking Aid


    • B1B44-01 (6C) Rear right outer sensor - General failure information - general electrical failure

    Parking Brake


    • U0100-87 (E Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
      ( on 31-05-2018 10:33:28 at 159702 km )

    Suspension


    • U0416-86 (A7) Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid
      ( on 31-05-2018 10:33:35 at 159702 km )

    Terrain Response


    • U0401-94 (27) Invalid data received from engine control module/powertrain control module - Component failure - unexpected operation
      ( on 31-05-2018 10:33:27 at 159702 km )
    • U0416-94 (27) Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module - Component failure - unexpected operation
      ( on 31-05-2018 10:33:27 at 159702 km )

    Vehicle Dynamic


    • U0401-68 (2 Invalid data received from engine control module/powertrain control module - Algorithm based failure - event information
      ( on 31-05-2018 10:33:27 at 159702 km )


    The Parking Aid failure is a broken wire, so that's not a consequence of this issue and is generally the only fault logged.

    Had a bit of a google, and noted the P117D wasn't the sort of fault you want to experience. Most results seemed to indicate fuel issues under load, so I popped back in the car and this time I very gingerly walked it up to about 3K in 1st, changed into second and did the same thing. No fault. I then felt something click or pop and it took off like a scalded cat. Since then I've been unable to reproduce the fault.

    Unfortunately at that point I hadn't had the presence of mind to learn about the logging capabilities of the IIDTool, so I didn't actually have any data on the fault occurring.

    Has anyone ever had the fuel volume control valve stick?

    I've done close to a hundred K's this afternoon while logging fuel pressure, temperature, volume regulator position, pressure regulator position and most other things I can think of, and it has all been normal.

    I have an appointment with the mechanic on Tuesday (as when I called the fault was completely reproducible and the car was practically useless). They suggested they'd check the harness out, manually exercise the valve, check the pressures & flow from the lift pump and update the software in the ECU (in that order). I don't really want them updating the ECU as I don't want the DPF delete over-written.

    They did intimate that this fault in concert with 2 other common fuel pressure related faults generally pointed towards a duff HPFP, but this particular fault didn't have those other two codes logged.

    Fuel filter is about 10,000km old. Anyone have any ideas I should be looking at?

    Brake light switch / bulbs are less than 6 months old. All 4 suspension sensors appear to be providing reliable and plausible signals.

    It was completely reproducible up until I wound it out under almost zero load and then it just went away (but I felt that point quite clearly - it was a real jerk accompanied by a sharp noise of some kind).

  2. #2
    Tombie Guest
    Sounds like you may have had a sticking turbo actuator rod... that suddenly came free.

  3. #3
    BradC is online now Super Moderator
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    It would be nice if it was. Since I now can't reproduce the fault I had a chat with the Mechanic to cancel my appt on Tuesday.

    Went through the fault again with one of the workshop guys and was advised it very much sounded like the volume control valve got stuck. Not unheard of apparently. My little play with it unloaded got it un-stuck. I'm told if it stuck once, it'll do it again and the only remedy is a new HPFP @ approximately $3K fitted.

    Apparently the volume valve restricts the flow of fuel to the HPFP (by bypassing it) to try and match fuel pressure load against fuel demand. The P117D is when it keeps trying to increase volume as demand rises and it hits the max open limit. That won't happen if the turbo isn't building boost as the fuel demand won't be there to require the increased volume. Apparently in the case of a faulty HPFP it is accompanied by various low fuel pressure faults, but mine doesn't have those, indicating the pump is ok bu the valve got stuck. Of course I'm told you can't just replace the valve.

    Basically was told they can't diagnose it unless it's actually exhibiting the fault in the workshop, so just drive it until it faults again. Of course the wife doesn't want to look at the rotten thing, so I'm stuck driving it around to try and get it to play up again.

  4. #4
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    Or replace the HPFP as a most likely to give her confidence
    2010 TDV6 3.0L Discovery 4 HSE
    2007 Audi RS4 (B7)

  5. #5
    BradC is online now Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster View Post
    Or replace the HPFP as a most likely to give her confidence
    I'm giving it serious consideration. I just can't stomach throwing another 3 grand at this money pit right now.

    I am considering doing it myself. The manual makes it look easy. Poking my head into the engine bay seems to indicate most of it requires double jointed wrists, a good mirror/ borescope and some serious patience. I have all of those.

    i just need to figure out the parts needed, where to get them cost effectively in Perth and how much the potential saving might be vs pouring more cash into someone else's pocket.

    Cant be much harder that doing a water pump on a tdi golf. That required the skills of a mechanic and gynaecologist.

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    Hahahaha. Yeah I hear yah. Cars today. How much more can they cram into the space.
    Maybe drive it for a while and if nothing happens, convince her it’s ok and if it happens again you’ll repair it?
    2010 TDV6 3.0L Discovery 4 HSE
    2007 Audi RS4 (B7)

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    Let her test drive a Prado. She'll want the D3 back!
    -----
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  8. #8
    BradC is online now Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by donh54 View Post
    Let her test drive a Prado. She'll want the D3 back!
    Shes willing to forego the bells, whistles and extra comfort for a reliable vehicle, so one of the options being discussed is replacing the D3 with a Prado. Heck, right now she'd rather drive my 30 year old Volvo.

    Anyone have any recommendations for a good Indie North of the river in Perth I can talk to for some other options and/or a second opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BradC View Post
    Shes willing to forego the bells, whistles and extra comfort for a reliable vehicle, so one of the options being discussed is replacing the D3 with a Prado. Heck, right now she'd rather drive my 30 year old Volvo.

    Anyone have any recommendations for a good Indie North of the river in Perth I can talk to for some other options and/or a second opinion?
    Tickel's Discovery Auto in Wangara are my go-to shop north of the river for tricky issues. They live and breathe LR and I've always found them easy to deal with.

  10. #10
    BradC is online now Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianRyan View Post
    Tickel's Discovery Auto in Wangara are my go-to shop north of the river for tricky issues. They live and breathe LR and I've always found them easy to deal with.
    Much obliged.

    I've made a deal with the Wife. As this particular fault can only show itself at startup (the valve jams shut), she'll pull out of the driveway in the other direction, and boot it up to and back from the roundabout a block up the road before she turns onto the main drag. If it survives that, it'll be fine on that particular journey and won't leave her stranded as even at idle the valve is open > 20%.

    If it does happen again however, I need to get the IIDTool on it and log the valve command position, fuel pressure and pressure regulator position. That'll positively nail the cause and if it turns out to be in the HPFP then I'll replace it. If I can reproduce it reliably, I'll limp it to the Mechanic and get a second opinion.

    I made up a fuel pressure gauge on the weekend to check the LPFP, and that checks out fine. Pressure is close enough and plenty of flow. Oddly enough if I pull the LPFP fuse the car still drives normally (and goes like a cut snake), but it does log a low fuel rail pressure fault code (no outward signs though).

    Having looked at a few diagrams of the HPFP and systems, the fuel volume regulator appears to be a servo operated unit, where the solenoid circuit drives a much larger hydraulic plunger inside the pump. If either of those stuck I'd see the exact symptoms I was seeing.

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