Same here , use it my sons FG alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Grappler
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Same here , use it my sons FG alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Grappler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staf
Ok, I'll bite. Why worry about what oil you're using and what specs it meets if you're then going to mix in some other third party product that alters it? If it's now been modified then it possibly no longer meets the specifications that you've just been looking for - the advise you received from Penrite is also null and void as it relates to their actual product in it's intended format not modified! The manufactures of the oils have gone to great lengths to develop the product to its particular needs and specifications for that purpose. What lab research and development have the additive companies really done to prove that their product is superior that the manufacturer specified requirements - I can't imagine that their R&D budget is anything compared to that of the big oil companies. Aside, if their products were so superior, why wouldn't the vehicle manufacturers and big oil companies be taking advantage or and incorporating them in themselves?
Aside from the fact that that company in general just raises red flags. From the name of Cost Effective Maintenance, their whole existence seems to be about trying to convince you that you need their product and should drink the Kool-Aid. I'd suggest that their marketing budget is far larger than the R&D budget! A quick browse of their website and it would seem that they've got some additive or flush product that will fix almost any of your vehicle problems from an overheating Diesel engine to unleashing more power! The only think I couldn't find was an additive to fix a faulty starter motor...
It's great that you've got cleaner oils, but I would be wondering why? I'm no expert, but my understanding is that engines produce carbon and soot. It has to go somewhere. Normally that's trapped in the engine oil, turning it black, and then comes out with that oil during the drain and change. If your oil is no longer going black then where is that soot going now? It's unlikely that the engine is no longer producing it. That would worry me as surely it's much better having it trapped in the oil where you know and expect it to be?
We're blessed on this website to have a technical oil expert that frequently responds and shares his knowledge. A quick site search I found many replies from rick130 where he was hesitant on the additives and flushes for various reasons. I'd suggest it would be in your interest to take a look and read yourself and perhaps even see if he'd have a chat to you about it if you have questions.
Personally, I would suggest rather than mixing in additives and risking running improper spec lubricants, you'd be much better off taking that extra money and just reducing your oil change intervals. That way you ensure that you run the correct product and will ensure it's changed before breakdown or failure occurs.
^ I’ve been waiting for someone else to take it on. Thanks! You’re 100% correct. Oil is designed to suspend particulates and stop them settling in the engine somewhere creating lumpy deposits and scale-like build up. A dirty oil is a good oil. A burnt oil (also dark) is bad, but you can smell that and that’s not going to happen in this vehicle.
Remember the good old days and Slick 50? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
I wouldn't say that oils will stop suspended particles from settling in the engine - gravity will do a good job of that on its own. What an oil detergents actual job is to coat soot particles to stop them amalgamating with other.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster
I am not a fan of additional additives in oil for a couple of reasons, main one is that you dont know if the additive you are adding will negatively affect the additive pack thats already in the oil.
I have also moved on from the ford spec oils years ago, but I run with valvoline oil. Oil sample results show a reduction in wear contamination with valvoline synpower 5W40 over my previously used synpower FE 5w30
Black is Better?
1. Additives.
All Oil manufacturers use additives.
All Oil manufacturers offer additional additives at a cost which would price their basic oils out of the market - between $15 and $30 a pop and this the main reason you'll not see them.
LiqiMoly (German) offer a ceramic additive, which adheres permanently to engine parts.
Nulon offer two different additional friction modifiers, one of which is a form of teflon, which adheres permanently to the engine parts.
Companies like ProLube will manufacture oil to custom specs, such as for drag racing engines, and will also use friction modifiers.
AW10 is neither ceramic, nor teflon based.
Friction Modifiers inhibit overheating of oil - the whole idea of oil is to reduce friction.
2. Flushing.
If the argument that dirty oil is good oil was valid then it could be argued that brand new diesel engines which show clean oil for quite some period of time are inferior to older engines showing dirty oil.
This is false argument.
New Diesel engines run clean, and stay fairly clean if oil is changed regularly, and only go very dirty and stay dirty, when they really are dirty.
Older Diesel engines do not 'improve' as they get dirtier - they simply have more residual crap in the engine than an oil change can get rid of, which is why when you change the oil it immediacy goes black again - it has to go black because of the years of residual carbon and crap you keep and cherish in your half clapped dirty Diesel engine.
This is precisely why owners with older engines choose to change oil at closer intervals - because they can see its running cleaner, not dirtier.
Clean oil is a sign of a cleaner engine - not less functional oil.
3. Conclusions:
Whist there are risks associated with flushing a very dirty, older engine, there is also no benefit in running dirty oil - if you can keep an engine, especially a diesel, in fairly clean condition by dumping the crap each time you do a change it is inherently better than keeping your engine oil permanently dirty.
Whilst there pros and cons with various friction modifiers all oil manufacturers use them - oil's ain't just oil.
Nobody chooses tyres with poorer antique compounds of years gone by, or batteries that you have to top up by hand with distilled water every two weeks; and when your heart/liver/kidney/eyesight falters who wants surgery 'as per the original' wooden handled bone saw specs of 1950 that you desperately called for on a 'party line' because you are 'old school'...?
Technology changes; in cars, tyres, phones, medicine and dare I suggest it...even in oils.
Whilst its important to be careful and do research the option to use 10 year old oils and keep your engine oil as black as a dark well at midnight is always there.
To say that your engine oil is working better when it's black is to say that it's better oil when old than when it was new.
Cheers.
Oh my. This is gold. ^ [emoji23]
A fool is easily parted with his money.
I’ve got my Brocky Polariser for sale - I’ll send you the link.
It fairly hard to determine oil condition from colour alone.
Yep. I’d love to see some independent before and after plus long term oil analysis of these various productsQuote:
Originally Posted by shanegtr
Staf I'm not biting this time. I think this is a case of you do you. I'm confident that your engine will let you know how much it appreciates your efforts in due course.
Thought I would resurrect an old thread given recent discussions around 2.7 crank failures and specifically the spun bearing risk. My comments relate specifically to the 2.7TDV6.
I note some people use the Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30. One thing to be mindful of is this oil gets very thin above 100degC. The Kinematic viscosity at 100degC is just below 10cSt.
If working the car hard in warm to hot weather the oil temp can hit 110-120degC, and at this temp the Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 can be as low as 6-8cSt. This oil may be OK for when the engine was new and still tight, but it is probably best suited for if you live in a cold climate area and the oil temp rarely gets above 90degC.
If sticking with a 5W-30 oil, then consider Castrol Edge A3/B4 5W-30. This oils spec is mid way between the Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 and HPR5 5W-40 and retains around 12cSt at 100degC.
Otherwise consider using Penrite HPR5 (5W-40) which has just over 14cSt at 100degC as this will give that little bit of extra buffer margin in hot weather. And it meets the Ford 913B spec.
And for added peace of mind, the specs for HPR5 at 100degC is very similar to the Total Quartz 7000 Semi-Synthetic 10W-40 oil which Citroen recommended for the 2.7 in “Temperate” to “Hot” climates.
The Penrite Full Synthetic 5W-30 looks to be a bit of an anomaly if the published technical data is correct as it is actually thinner at 40 and 100degC than HPR0 0W-30.