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If that’s your only need and the beach is not that far away, then stay with the D1 till it dies. Then buy an NP Paj with a reasonable service history. Very cheap with good diesel motor. Just not as good off or on road as a D4 or L322. While more capable, they are more complex, so safer to buy as late model as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky34
D3's are not a fishing vehicle unless that means driving to a fish farm to catch I mean buy a trout.
If you can live with a petrol get the V8, I did and love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky34
Crikey, I never thought I'd see the day when a realistic assessment of the D3/D4's capability/reliability actually appeared in, of all places, the D3/D4 forum.
It's not that long ago that there was 'serious' thread here proposing (IMO) a very rose coloured glasses view that the D3/D4 was not only equal to but better off road than the Defender and comment at your own risk should one disagree. Wow.
As for the poor bugger advertising his low Km 'blown bottom end' 2.7D D3 for $3K, I reckon his 'motivated seller' comment really means "I've had a gut full of this POS and will take whatever I can get'.
I'm currently considering a D3 but am under no illusions as to it's off road capability/reliability. I've never been a fan of the 2.7D and consider it less reliable/strong than the 300Tdi and TD5 that preceded it so would prefer a petrol engine. Whilst the V8 would be great they were only available in the higher spec 2005/2006 usually HSE models. For reliability/peace of mind I reckon the coil sprung V6 S spec petrol is the ideal model for me. Decent engine and no EAS issues which I reckon should cut out about 1/2 of potential issues in a 13 year old D3 :).
Another benefit is the easy/fool proof ability to give a suspension lift/run taller tyres if necessary. I know EAS is superb when operating correctly but when it isn't it's a bloody nightmare.
My 2 bobs worth.
Deano :)
IMHO..Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoH
*I dont think a D3 or D4 is a POS.
*I would never consider a coil D3, the air suspension and terrain control is all part of what makes a D3 so good.
*Drive a (running) D3 in reasonable condition and it drives, handles and goes off road way better than something of the same year by prolly most other brands.
*Then drive a Discovery 2 and it feels truck like by comparison (IMHO a D2 is a great vehicle both on and off road).
*Drive a D4 and for a vehicle that is mechanically / engineered based off a D3 and its so much more refined, drives handles, is a better vehicle from that perspective.
*I do believe there has been some really crap Ford supplied engineering, have a look in the U.S the F series pickups with V8 turbo diesel engines are another known failure. (lucky the cab has the same bolt on design as the D3 / D4)
*I do think that major engine failures on a D3 while crap for owners, it is 10 years plus old now.
*I do think major failures such as inlet manifolds cracking and engine failures on a D4 to be unforgiving and criminal to say the least. Even secondhand a D4 still fetches a pretty penny.
*So until the Ford engineering is completely out of Land Rover I dont see any model getting better.
and to end on a good note:
Just finished putting in a low mileage engine (5000km) in a 2008 D3 for a very very patient customer and they seem pretty dam happy with it. I know I was, it drove and ran so dam well that after the first 100km I would have been happy to keep driving it.
I don’t know if this is fishing to revive an argument off topic, but I’ll offer having a MY98 D1, MY03 D2a (with CDL), MY11 Defender 90 Puma and MY12 D4 TDV6 on our property I’d be comfortable to say stock for stock the D4’s capabilities are surprisingly good - the additional height the air suspension affords combined with the traction from whatever the fancy traction control system is called works - even with highway tyres fitted to ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoH
But it really depends on how your comparing them to determine ‘better off road’, what criteria and what weight given. I reckon the D4 could go the furthest in the sand, but would I trust it in a water crossing or mud put? No, too much expensive things on it that are potentially sensitive to going wrong.
I think the issues highlighted in this thread are blown totally out of proportion.
Yes the issues do occur but only in a very small % of vehicles - for sure when you work on them you see the bad side of things and when people come to forums with problems everyone thinks all vehicles have the issues.
I do not look at my vehicles through rose coloured glasses but the hysteria in this thread is over the top - so now the the Op want to get a Pajero - a vehicle that has more issues than our vehicles do.
Sorry, but my now 12 yo RRS has generally been fault free issues mainly related to what I consider to be service items. My car has been the most reliable I have ever owned and I have owned 20 over my driving life. Yes I am aware of the engine issues but overall lack of maintenance is a common denominator - however there are exceptions.
I am a member of a LR 4wd Club with a large number of D3s, D4s, RR and RRS and not one has had engine failure - in the context of the numbers of vehicles it is rare.
So owners need to be aware of the issues but not alarmed by them - learn your car and service it accordingly.
Bagging the cars out with an almost religious fervour is nonsense.
Garry
Agree Garry
DazzaTD5 your helpful website sets out the proper service intervals perfectly for best performance and avoidance of problems. Therefore, for prospective buyers, only touch well maintained and serviced vehicles or you’ll get to know Uncle Big Bill well.
These will never be a good choice for an el cheapo 2nd hand 4WD hack. Just like there is no cheap boat - avoiding maintenance will have you waiting for rescue. You pay now or pay later is an unavoidable law of nature.
I’m actually more positive the TDV6 is the better diesel keeper car option over the 3.0 with a PlanB Territory engine option in worst case. Keep on top of cooling system and fingers crossed she’s not a hand grenade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twr7cx
Absolutely not fishing for an argument or to put down any vehicle D3, D4 or anything else for that matter. I noted what I consider to be a fair critique from an authorative source, and added my 2 bobs worth.
When I buy a D3 it will be the 10th Land Rover I have owned so I naturally don't consider it to be POS :) but like all the Land Rovers and other 4WD's that have preceded it there will be pluses and minuses so I come here to the font of all things D3 to find out before it's too late.
By "off road" I'm one of a dwindling number who actually take this term to mean actually off road though in reality this term has come to mean different things to different people. For 'off road' work I have an Oka which IMO is the perfect vehicle for my seriously off road needs but is a poor choice for my day to day 4WD and other needs. For this I reckon a D3 will be a good choice though I'm a bit 'gun shy' of the airbag variants after my P38a and D2 experiences but I'll take on board the experience/advice of those here and trust that I won't be disappointed.
I'm unsure of the differences between (petrol) D3's over the years. Apart from age/Km's is there important update issues that I should be considering ?
Thanks
Deano :)
Probably JLR continued the coil sprung option into the D3 for Discovery buyers who had lingering concerns about EAS reliability after some bad experiences by early RR Classic, P38 and initial L322s.
JLR will probably do the same with the new Defender and offer both coil and EAS options.
The EAS in the D3s and later L322s have proved very reliable, which is probably why the coil option didn’t continue with the D4 (other than in RSA for a short time which looked like a D3 retro fit). But in the L322s at least you should expect to replace the front spring/strut assembly at around 10 years. So age is a factor with these vehicles.
I own both a 1988 110 Perentie wagon and a 2008 RRV which is much younger but done twice the km of the Perentie. My experience has been the RRV is more reliable, has better quality/protected electrical connectors, has better offroad traction, does the on road a heap better and safer (let’s face it most km are on road), so meets my uses better than a 110. However, if the RRV stops in the middle of the Simpson then it’s probably a tray top out because of its complexity (although with an IID tool and some skills I can fix some things). But the quality of the build/and it’s maintenance history gives me confidence that a show stopper is unlikely. About a year ago I did a 7k km trip to Vic without a single drama other than wore out the rear brake pads and got a puncture.
But in comparison, my Perentie 110 carries more gear, and if it’s stops in the Simpson I can probably get it going. But the build/design means I have less confidence. Eg last big trip the build quality resulted in a genuine fuel tank failure after a few days of corrugations. Recently it almost caught fire because cash strapped Land Rover adapted a 1948 design to a 1989 car and squeezed in a fat loom where it wasn’t designed to go, and also killed the battery. Now fixed and I still like to drive it occasionally.
So more modern overall wins out for me. A lot of members think the D5 has gone too far from JLR origins. The new Defender will hopefully help resolve that.