Thread: D4 Battery Replacement

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

I need a starting battery ASAP for my 2014 D4.

I sometimes tow a off road van (1840 kg up to 2500kg with water etc.). The van has two 252 w solar panels and two 120 AG AGM batteries. Due to the electronics in the van, getting a proper charge to Lithiums batteries was not possible. Also I was not able to easily squeeze in bigger deep cycle batteries, plus the sweet spot for caravan deep cycle batteries is either 105 AH or 120 AH. In most cases ... but I read a l ot of stats on batteries. Their characteristics vary a lot. Some take charge quicker (Lithium iron by far quicker, then AGM, Gel is slowest of typical lead acid batteries but for deep cycle they are able to take much more of their capacity with less van use due to slower charging but more critically they cost a lot more than AGMs), some are sensitive to heat (most AGM warranties are qualified not to in the engine bay), and the stats on their capacity is often marketing claims than reality, plus the construction materials vary a lot. Also retailers get differing wholesale prices on batteries, typically with deals or ownership which steers them to sell limited brands in order to be competitive. Plus the wholesalers vary the prices with specials etc IMO and hence one has to be lucky with a start battery good buy if one decides on one particular battery.

The statement made about weight is correct. It points to the overall capacity of the battery. However deep cycle batteries are quite different to the requirements for high short term power for a starting battery. The AGM that does both though is still the cylindrical Optima batteries. Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. One needs to measure them on the weight basis. Their feature though is that due to the varying thickness of their wound cylindrical AGM design, they can crank well, but they can also tolerate lots of discharge. A decade or so ago they were used in electric vehicle development, although a major reason for that was they can re-charge very quickly.

The plate design of AGM with fibreglass holding the acid, does mean that with a thin layers of glass heat might cause an AGM to vent through its valve some gas, and hence, many AGMs are not suitable for engine bay use. I think that if an AGM has thicker glass then that would make it less likely to be effected by heat ... but the warranty would be the key I guess.

For me, I will look at good AGM brand that will work in the hot engine bay (warranty should indicate that), and also its tolerance for running my fridge in the back (and I have a 2nd battery already which is a yellow top Optima).

My thinking at the moment is that if I go for an AGM, because the fibreglass holds the battery plates firmly and hence they handle rough roads better - but it must be heat tolerant. Evidently the case material effects that heat issue to. Due to the 2nd battery which can also assist in cranking the battery then I am not so dependent IMO on cranking power. A lot of top AGMs seem now designed for restarting motors when one stops the vehicle, which my 2014 D4 doesn't suffer from. I would have liked to get another yellow top (as one is the 2nd battery) - bbut the height for the D4 compartment is too low for a decent sized Optima yellow top. Darn. I do wonder if a Lithium might do the job too.

Incidentally for my deep cycles AGMs for the van I bought two Full River batteries 120 AHs, and while most 120AH batteries weighed 32 or so kg, the Full Rivers weighed 36.5 kg although I have not weighed them! It's one thing to claim 36.5 kg or whatever - with marketing these days its best to actually weigh them. As is its best not to trust many of the claims battery makers make. And the construction quality, the materials used, the purity of the lead used, the design of the bridges between the plates - those things are all compromised if a maker is chasing price. The Full Rivers cost more but are well made, and many are sold in Australia which means they are well priced in Australia and worth their extra cost IMO.

My wife's grandfather worked at Varta - but they seem expensive al right!! The Delkor LN5 though seems a very good fit for the space available.

I have the Delkor fitted about 4 months ago for $350 with the reset

""""Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. """"

This is news to me....any explanation?

Originally Posted by Markus1

""""Interestingly the Optima batteries understate their capacity - one has to read their stats to realise their capacity in AH is much greater than they claim. """"

This is news to me....any explanation?

I haven't done the stats for years!! But yes, they are rated differently. As a clue, check their weight - they are much heavier than their rated capacity. Of course AGMs are different depending on their design - ie a deep cycle's CCA for a deep cycle is much lower than the amp hours although that is not the case with the Optima. I think because the top windings of the lead plates are thinner than further into the cylinder of windings. Hence they can through out a good CCA and still have OK deep cycle performance. But for vans etc. people buy purely deep cycle batteries.

And design and quality means that some deep cycle AGMs last much longer than others due their promises about same quality and longevity being only words.

I am about to go away and am busy, but I'll see if I can dig out the data on the Optimas when i get back..

Curiously with the Optima, they can take a 50 Amp 13+ volt input I think ... so they are quite different.

Originally Posted by kero

I have the Delkor fitted about 4 months ago for $350 with the reset

Every Battery quoted me over $500 for one ... where did you buy yours? That sounds a good deal.

I can't find the weight of the Delkor or the Varta either ... Delkor is Korean but ultimately owned by Johnson ... Varta are Varta and German although I don't know for sure that they are made in Germany itself. They likely are still owned by the Quandt family who also own BMW. Sometimes privately owned can result in good value but the Vartas sure aren't cheap. Aus still make batteries despite our electricity prices but we don't make AGMs.

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

Every Battery quoted me over $500 for one ... where did you buy yours? That sounds a good deal.

I can't find the weight of the Delkor or the Varta either ... Delkor is Korean but ultimately owned by Johnson ... Varta are Varta and German although I don't know for sure that they are made in Germany itself. They likely are still owned by the Quandt family who also own BMW. Sometimes privately owned can result in good value but the Vartas sure aren't cheap. Aus still make batteries despite our electricity prices but we don't make AGMs.

I was working in Parkes at the time just one of the auto elec. The local dealer for Delkor the only place in town
Kero

Under 3 years due to lack of use original battery gone, RACQ called replaced battery with theirs (under warranty) he fitted my Ctech adaptor for charging while sitting around, Im not fussing over what types but looking at keeping it charged while not in use. Happy with that.

You can get a mf88h supercharge off the shelf at Auto barn for under 300. Huge warranty. I've abused mine, it just laughs at me. Lithium do not belong in an engine bay. They all state that.

Originally Posted by josh.huber

You can get a mf88h supercharge off the shelf at Auto barn for under 300. Huge warranty. I've abused mine, it just laughs at me. Lithium do not belong in an engine bay. They all state that.

Thanks Guys. Yep that calcium should be available for under $300 including a delivery.

Batterystop in Campbellfield quoted me $380 for the Delkor 'AGM LN5 - Delkor LN5 Auto BatterySpecificationsm and I got a local to me price from another place the same (after he called back):
• CCA : 900
• Length: 352
• Width: 175
• Height: 190
Which is the right size and as heavy as anything that fits in the space although I have now forgotten where I got that weight from. It seems in start batteries their weight is not offered easily. I guess marketers want the battery weight kept secret. We know why. Its commonly conveyed in deep cycles. But also - are the weight stats accurate?

I'd rather an AGM if it can handle the heat as an AGM is better at taking bumps.

A German educated mechanic friend said the Vartas seem to last forever and he is now a manager at a very large trucking company, but at $550 the AGM Varta doesn't really seem to make sense ...