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Thread: Battery Torture Test

  1. #1
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    Battery Torture Test

    Recently I shared an installation of a lithium based DBS (see Lithium Battery Install Instructions) and there were a few requests for real world testing so what I did was use the Fusion lithium and Optima batteries in a standalone situation to see how long they would power my fridge until the battery was drained or the low voltage setting of the fridge kicked in.

    So, for the test I used a Snowmaster (Opposite Lock badged) 72L dual compartment fridge. I set both compartments to -15C and the low voltage cut out was set to 11.7V. I kept the lids of the fridge open so the compressor ran continuously for each test. My fridge now hates me! The Fusion battery is brand new, the Optima is about 3 years old but was recently tested and was all good.

    To see the amps used, I put a watt meter inline on the power lead to the fridge and to keep time I had a battery voltmeter that stores battery voltage every 2 mins. I connected these at the start of the test and read them when the fridge cut out. Now I didn’t sit by the fridge for times shown below so they maybe a little out but not by much as I was checking them every half hour or so.

    Results
    Optima 55A Yellowtop, Runtime 6hr, 34A
    Fusion Lithium 100A, Runtime 19hr, 95A

    These are pretty much inline with what I was thinking and fulfills my objective of getting multiday use out of my DBS. Remember these are continuous run time figures so for everyday use I would say the compressor comes on for about 20minutes for every hour, which means the fridge would run for about 3 times as long as these numbers suggest. I would also say it’s essential you have a proper battery meter installed with a lithium as it outputs a constant voltage until right at the end when it plummets. If you don’t have one you have no way of knowing the charge of your battery. With the Optima the voltage drop was constant.

    Now, you’re going to ask about charging. Well I haven’t completed that yet other than to say after installing the Lithium back in the car and driving for an hour, according to the battery meter I have replaced 28A. I know that it replaces 80% of capacity pretty quickly then the other 20% over a long period but if I get back 80A within a 3 or 4 hours of driving, I’m happy.
    Rod

    D4 MY16 5 seat TDV6 - LLAMS, Custom Drawers, OL Bar, Toyo Open Country, GOE Rims, Lithium DBS, eDiff, OA Long Range Tank, GAP Tool, Tracklander rack, Mitch Hitch, TPMS & Safari Snorkel

  2. #2
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    It’d be interesting to see a comparison between 2 batteries of similar physical size
    "Land Rover - making mechanics out of everyday motorists for nearly 70 years"

  3. #3
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    Hi Rod and mate I am sorry but that is by no means a fair comparison of the two battery types.

    First off, going on the info you posted up in your other two threads, because you were not using your Traxide DBS as it was intended, there is every likelyhood that your Optima is in a very poor condition, so there can’t be an honest comparison between the two batteries.

    Next, you discharged the lithium battery down to 100% DoD, and while a Optima Yellowtop can also be SAFELY discharged down to 100% DoD, you only discharged it down to 80% DoD.

    This all means that none of your finding are relevant.

    You need to carry out at least 5 to 10 charge discharge cycles on both batteries, with a decent battery charger and then carry out your comparison test.

    This would bring the Optima back to somewhere near is correct State of Charge.

    Your Optima, even when only discharged down to 20% SoC ( = 80% DoD ), you should have got at least 40 to 44Ah from that battery.

    With out doing a number of charge discharge cycles on your lithium battery, you have no way of knowing the genuine Ah available from that battery.

    Many poor quality lithium batteries can be labeled as being a 100Ah battery but may have as little as 80Ah actually available. My brand of 100Ah lithium batteries, which are on the other end of the quality spectrum, regularly return an Ah of 104 to 109Ah.

    So again, you have a lot of work to do before you can make legitimate comparisons between these two batteries.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_D4 View Post
    It’d be interesting to see a comparison between 2 batteries of similar physical size
    Hi John, you can actually use different size batteries and still get comparatively accurate comparison between two different types of batteries, but as above, the testing has to be done correctly.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivesafe View Post
    Hi John, you can actually use different size batteries and still get comparatively accurate comparison between two different types of batteries, but as above, the testing has to be done correctly.
    Agreed. But you can’t decide on which battery you’re going to buy if only 1 of the batteries actually fits in the battery tray!
    "Land Rover - making mechanics out of everyday motorists for nearly 70 years"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivesafe View Post
    Hi Rod and mate I am sorry but that is by no means a fair comparison of the two battery types.

    First off, going on the info you posted up in your other two threads, because you were not using your Traxide DBS as it was intended, there is every likelyhood that your Optima is in a very poor condition, so there can’t be an honest comparison between the two batteries.

    Next, you discharged the lithium battery down to 100% DoD, and while a Optima Yellowtop can also be SAFELY discharged down to 100% DoD, you only discharged it down to 80% DoD.

    This all means that none of your finding are relevant.

    You need to carry out at least 5 to 10 charge discharge cycles on both batteries, with a decent battery charger and then carry out your comparison test.

    This would bring the Optima back to somewhere near is correct State of Charge.

    Your Optima, even when only discharged down to 20% SoC ( = 80% DoD ), you should have got at least 40 to 44Ah from that battery.

    With out doing a number of charge discharge cycles on your lithium battery, you have no way of knowing the genuine Ah available from that battery.

    Many poor quality lithium batteries can be labeled as being a 100Ah battery but may have as little as 80Ah actually available. My brand of 100Ah lithium batteries, which are on the other end of the quality spectrum, regularly return an Ah of 104 to 109Ah.

    So again, you have a lot of work to do before you can make legitimate comparisons between these two batteries.
    Tim
    I'm not sure what you mean by you were not using your Traxide DBS as it was intended as it was installed exactly as per your instructions and in Shared mode but anyway as I've said before I wanted to move away from using the starting battery so that means installing a different system to yours. I wish you would stop referring back to your system, it's irrelevant, I'm doing something different to you. Is that OK?

    I fail to see why you don't think this is a real world test. Quite possibly you need to do this a few times to make it accurate but I'm not going to to that because I couldn't be bothered and my fridge would probably cack itself. However if the fridge is set to a cut out voltage, which they all will be, in my case 11.7V and 1 battery delivers 3 times the amps than the other then what does that say? Even if the Optima delivered 40 amps as you suggest, that's only 6 amps more than my test shows so I can't see really what the problem is. I can't discharge the battery anymore than when the fridge cuts out. Even your ABG-25 is designed to cut out at 11.6V.

    As I said in my post before I DO NOT WANT TO USE THE STARTING BATTERY, so any of your comments must take that into consideration and should not refer back to your Traxide system.

    You also mentioned about false battery labelling and I guess you can make that argument about any product but that's a complete red herring in this instance because my battery is labelled 100 amp and I got 95 amps out of it and I actually stopped the test early because the point had been proven.

    I suggest you stop trying to SELL your products as the only solution, there's another section on this forum for that.
    Rod

    D4 MY16 5 seat TDV6 - LLAMS, Custom Drawers, OL Bar, Toyo Open Country, GOE Rims, Lithium DBS, eDiff, OA Long Range Tank, GAP Tool, Tracklander rack, Mitch Hitch, TPMS & Safari Snorkel

  7. #7
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    Thanks for posting Rod, look forward to your updates.

    I need lock on a brand of battery soonish. More than likely 200amp/hr lithium therefor need the dimension for the camper fitout.

    My main drive is to be gas free for touring. Given space is at a premium I’m leaning towards lithium. I could add another AGM bit means a lot of weight and probably consume more space.

    I’m also in the camp of leaving the starter out of the capacity equation

  8. #8
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    Hi again Rod and first off, it has nothing to do with me selling my gear. As you have already stated. you “HAD” my gear in your vehicle, and as you have now finally stated that you WERE using it as intended.

    This brings us right back to an earlier thread, where I suggested something may be wrong with your specific setup and if you liked some help to sort it, I requested you post up some operating info.

    Contrary to your claim I just want to try to sell my products. I make it a point of doing everything I can to help my customer, even when the problem has nothing to do with my products, and this service was being offered to you.

    And as I pointed out, if you had a problem and didn't solve, you may still have the same problem with your new setup.

    You obviously didn’t want to fix what ever the reason was for your short operating times. Thats your prerogative, and so be it.

    Then you posted up about your Lithium setup and again fitting a lithium battery is your prerogative, but this does not alter the fact that much of your “ADVICE” was incorrect.

    You and I are not the only ones reading these threads and if you, or anybody else posts up erroneous info, then it should be corrected, to make sure others don’t make the same mistakes.

    And once again, your Optima is obviously in a poor state of health and as such, how is this comparison test in the slightest bit relevant.?

    As for you not wanting use your cranking battery. WHY, you have not made your setup any safer.

  9. #9
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    Tim
    I get your frustration with the backstory to this thread
    AND
    I totally understand your disdain of testing batteries with limited scientific rigour
    BUT let’s just get real for a minute

    THIS test (as best as I can comprehend) is as follows

    Standalone discharge test
    New charged Lithium vs/
    Charged 3 year old but recently load tested Optima

    Total Run time with load applied - 12V fridge

    Once Battery output voltage (UNDER LOAD) dipped below 11.7V test stopped

    Now that is NOT testing 11.7V DoD
    Lithium’s hold their Voltage under load and of course will do well in this test

    It won’t matter if the test is repeated 100 times
    The Optima under these conditions will always perform close to tested



    Now to reality - this test actually matches the working cycle for someone who want a battery that runs their fridge essentially seperate to the charging system
    The OP has on this and other thread stated he wants to run his fridge easentially stand-alone
    With no drag on vehicle once stopped

    If he can adequately charge the Lith
    He has found his solution

    I know you have a deep love affair for Optima but to anyone who has no dog in the fight
    They are expensive low capacity batteries. I know that silly late model JLR offerings have no space for a reasonable sized battery and so you have built a system around a small format battery BUT that doesn’t make Optima the only solution to running a fridge

    As I mentioned in other thread - if I had the OP same goals
    I would run 120W solar Victron 75/15 and a 130ah AGM to fridge
    No connection to vehicle
    That system is standalone and will work as long as there is a bit of sunshine around most days.
    Hell even better keep the sexy Lith and run a dedicated Lith charge profile from a Victron and you’ll have indefinite fridge running even in Tasmanian winter !!!

    S

  10. #10
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    "Haters gonna hate"
    A few Landies - current = 2009 D3 2.7 Auto with some rusty bits hanging off it.

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