LR4 Crankshaft Failure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StephCraig

Hi, they did the changes at the LR Schedule, 23K kms. Should they have been doing them more frequently?

Forgive my complete ignorance, but what do you mean by the relevant service bulletins? I’ve done my best to understand my vehicles and service them appropriately over the years, but am not sure what that term references. Every day is a school day!

And do you know, I wouldn’t actually be surprised if the dealership was winding us up with the cost. The head pencil pusher down there is a piece of work. I think he thinks that everyone who owns one of the cars his dealership sells is an entitled, wealthy snob... No entertainment at all of the fact that the people who purchase a car like this might have actually been saving for it their entire lives and expect to have it for the rest of their lives.

Obviously we have no idea how we are going to pay for the repair, and I am just a little brittle as a result.

---

The first Bulletin regarding the c/shaft failure was SSM71816 dated May 2014. (You can Google it.)
The second Bulletin is SSM72928 which states basically the same thing.

They basically state that in some circumstances due to incorrect assembly, the bearing shell/s for the main brgs on the c/shaft can move, (rotate) thus blocking off their oil feed hole and causing brg seizure and other catastrophic problem such as broken (snapped due to instant seizure) shaft.

The very fact that yours is an MY16 car (ie, 2 yrs AFTER the SSM release date) together with the "bonus" that you've always had it Dealer serviced, would, in most people's opinion be that you'll be entitled to a new engine from LR without any cost whatsoever to you.

Now there is some opinion that the problem is maybe exacerbated by the long periods between engine oil changes, and that the oils ability to do its job satisfactorily, drops off (to put it simply) with the higher klms being asked of it, in this case, 23,000 klms or whatever the periods are.

Indeed, many of us "old school" mechanics reckon that 10,000 klms between changes is about as far as you'd want to go, regardless of the fact that the modern engine oils (full synthetic) are vastly improved.
The main reason why all manufacturers have increased their service periods is a Marketing one, ie, they want to prove their maintenance costs are low.

So, given your cars manufacturing date and the Dealer servicing it should be a cut and dried case for you and in fact we do have some members on this Forum who have been in similar situation and they reported that JLR Aus WAS forthcoming with a new engine.
On some cases they had to pay labour, but I assume it was not quite such a cut and dried case as yours.

That is why I am suggesting you push very hard (lawyers letter etc if necessary) to get a full warranty job at no cost to you.
It sounds like your Dealer is not particularly helpful but you'll have to work on that.

The 55k astounds me 'cos you can buy a reco "long" engine (ie, without turbos etc, it is just the basic engine assembly) for 3,500 quid in England and around $7500 in Aus.
Guessing, I would think that around $10k labour should pull it up?

If its a complete engine assy then less labour hours as not necessary to remove & refit components to the new "long" engine assy.

Maybe a bit more labour cost depending on hourly labour rate, but if a new complete engine assy is, as some people say, around $25k ish, then how does your Dealer estimate $55k????

It goes without saying that you've got to push hard on this one, particularly as it seems the Dealer is not necessarily going in to bat for you.
I reckon that you are holding all the good cards, Good Luck!!

Sadly I’ve seen the $50k price before for these engine failures - this isn’t the first. That doesn’t make it right, but I’m not surprised to hear that, sorry

The price is just the JLR Australia price for a new engine - standard stealer pricing plus their $200+ per hour labour charge.

Nothing to be surprised there - but if you decided to go ahead and pay for a new engine plus installation who in their right mind would use a dealer. So in reality this price means nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Discodicky

The first Bulletin regarding the c/shaft failure was SSM71816 dated May 2014. (You can Google it.)
The second Bulletin is SSM72928 which states basically the same thing.

They basically state that in some circumstances due to incorrect assembly, the bearing shell/s for the main brgs on the c/shaft can move, (rotate) thus blocking off their oil feed hole and causing brg seizure and other catastrophic problem such as broken (snapped due to instant seizure) shaft.

The very fact that yours is an MY16 car (ie, 2 yrs AFTER the SSM release date) together with the "bonus" that you've always had it Dealer serviced, would, in most people's opinion be that you'll be entitled to a new engine from LR without any cost whatsoever to you.

Now there is some opinion that the problem is maybe exacerbated by the long periods between engine oil changes, and that the oils ability to do its job satisfactorily, drops off (to put it simply) with the higher klms being asked of it, in this case, 23,000 klms or whatever the periods are.

Indeed, many of us "old school" mechanics reckon that 10,000 klms between changes is about as far as you'd want to go, regardless of the fact that the modern engine oils (full synthetic) are vastly improved.
The main reason why all manufacturers have increased their service periods is a Marketing one, ie, they want to prove their maintenance costs are low.

So, given your cars manufacturing date and the Dealer servicing it should be a cut and dried case for you and in fact we do have some members on this Forum who have been in similar situation and they reported that JLR Aus WAS forthcoming with a new engine.
On some cases they had to pay labour, but I assume it was not quite such a cut and dried case as yours.

That is why I am suggesting you push very hard (lawyers letter etc if necessary) to get a full warranty job at no cost to you.
It sounds like your Dealer is not particularly helpful but you'll have to work on that.

The 55k astounds me 'cos you can buy a reco "long" engine (ie, without turbos etc, it is just the basic engine assembly) for 3,500 quid in England and around $7500 in Aus.
Guessing, I would think that around $10k labour should pull it up?

If its a complete engine assy then less labour hours as not necessary to remove & refit components to the new "long" engine assy.

Maybe a bit more labour cost depending on hourly labour rate, but if a new complete engine assy is, as some people say, around $25k ish, then how does your Dealer estimate $55k????

It goes without saying that you've got to push hard on this one, particularly as it seems the Dealer is not necessarily going in to bat for you.
I reckon that you are holding all the good cards, Good Luck!!

---

Thank you so much for all of your advice/help.
You’ve given us a glimmer of hope.

Ironically we were just singing the praises of our car to a dear friend recently...
May need to update our advice now.

Will update when we talk to LandRover again tomorrow. Suspect this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarry

Yes,just edited my post[biggrin]

For D4 3.0L,$17K is pretty cheap,my local Indie does them for well over $20K.

It also depends how many K's and age of the vehicle as other gear may also need replacing at the same time.

And if its an old D4,high mileage,may be not economical to do.

---

Toymota rrp is 26k for a crate motor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StephCraig

Thank you so much for all of your advice/help.
You’ve given us a glimmer of hope.

Ironically we were just singing the praises of our car to a dear friend recently...
May need to update our advice now.

Will update when we talk to LandRover again tomorrow. Suspect this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

---

Probably getting too far ahead of myself now with what I am about to say below, but prior retirement, in other "lives" I worked as a Head mech in a LR/RR/Jaguar dealership and later for 30 odd years as a Senior Mngr with a worldwide earthmoving manufacturer, so i have a fair idea of the processes involved here.

Ideally, your Dealership should submit a "Policy Claim" on your behalf, stating the SSM's, your car's service history etc. Then hopefully, LRA will accept it and give the authorisation for your dealership to do the repairs. Theoretically at least, it should not be necessary for you to contact LRA.

One reason why your dealer may not be "helpful" for you is the fact that they'll have to do the repairs at virtually "cost" price with labour.
In other words, rather than be able to charge you anywhere between $150-200 per hour for your "retail" job, they will only be able to charge LRA at warranty labour rates which will be vastly less (circa $60 per hour????)

So, obviously your dealership could be many thousands dollars less in income for your job!!

As I said, getting too far ahead now, but just trying to forewarn you that the dealer MAY try to do some sort of shifty work and tell you that LRA will only supply the engine FOC and you'll have to pay them the labour!

Stick to your guns, yes it will most likely be long and protracted, but as every day goes past these days, the ACCC is looking at car manufacturers a lot closer than past years which is great for the consumer.

Fingers crossed!

I shudder when reading of people's misfortunes such as yours, and my immediate reaction is to say, **** it, I'll sell the bloody thing before it bites me. (It's done 152,000 klms and been a great car) But wot car can you buy with a limited budget (Retirement!!) which drives so nicely and tows my 3.0T caravan with ease? I've owned a new 2017 Isuzu Mux and driven all the latest 4WD's. My two sons have new Navara and Hilux Dual cabs and they don't cut the mustard for me. My eldest son had a 2008 D3 2.7 HSE for a few years and it was a great family car, but he needed the dual cab ute 'cos of need to carry bikes, kayaks, etc. He kinda regrets going to the new Hilux (has had a coupla probs with it) as the D3 was so much better.

If I experience the dreaded engine blowup then I'll rebuild it, and although it will over capitalise it in the short term, I will amortise the repairs in my head (!) over several years so it doesn't seem so bad and continue to drive it knowing that I still have one of the nicest most driveable 4WD's on this planet!

Is a far better car than for example the 2012 L/cruiser 200 series with 120,000 klms at $98,000 on car sales at the moment!!
There is a 2006 L/cruiser 100 series GXL turbo diesel with under 100,000 klms for $72,000; will someone really be so silly as to pay that for a 15 yr old car???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Discodicky

Probably getting too far ahead of myself now with what I am about to say below, but prior retirement, in other "lives" I worked as a Head mech in a LR/RR/Jaguar dealership and later for 30 odd years as a Senior Mngr with a worldwide earthmoving manufacturer, so i have a fair idea of the processes involved here.

Ideally, your Dealership should submit a "Policy Claim" on your behalf, stating the SSM's, your car's service history etc. Then hopefully, LRA will accept it and give the authorisation for your dealership to do the repairs. Theoretically at least, it should not be necessary for you to contact LRA.

One reason why your dealer may not be "helpful" for you is the fact that they'll have to do the repairs at virtually "cost" price with labour.
In other words, rather than be able to charge you anywhere between $150-200 per hour for your "retail" job, they will only be able to charge LRA at warranty labour rates which will be vastly less (circa $60 per hour????)

So, obviously your dealership could be many thousands dollars less in income for your job!!

As I said, getting too far ahead now, but just trying to forewarn you that the dealer MAY try to do some sort of shifty work and tell you that LRA will only supply the engine FOC and you'll have to pay them the labour!

Stick to your guns, yes it will most likely be long and protracted, but as every day goes past these days, the ACCC is looking at car manufacturers a lot closer than past years which is great for the consumer.

Fingers crossed!

I shudder when reading of people's misfortunes such as yours, and my immediate reaction is to say, **** it, I'll sell the bloody thing before it bites me. (It's done 152,000 klms and been a great car) But wot car can you buy with a limited budget (Retirement!!) which drives so nicely and tows my 3.0T caravan with ease? I've owned a new 2017 Isuzu Mux and driven all the latest 4WD's. My two sons have new Navara and Hilux Dual cabs and they don't cut the mustard for me. My eldest son had a 2008 D3 2.7 HSE for a few years and it was a great family car, but he needed the dual cab ute 'cos of need to carry bikes, kayaks, etc. He kinda regrets going to the new Hilux (has had a coupla probs with it) as the D3 was so much better.

If I experience the dreaded engine blowup then I'll rebuild it, and although it will over capitalise it in the short term, I will amortise the repairs in my head (!) over several years so it doesn't seem so bad and continue to drive it knowing that I still have one of the nicest most driveable 4WD's on this planet!

Is a far better car than for example the 2012 L/cruiser 200 series with 120,000 klms at $98,000 on car sales at the moment!!
There is a 2006 L/cruiser 100 series GXL turbo diesel with under 100,000 klms for $72,000; will someone really be so silly as to pay that for a 15 yr old car???

---

Thank you so very much for all of your advice with regard to our horrible predicament.
We have been so unsure of how to proceed and so gobsmacked that it could happen to this prestige vehicle in the first place, that we were really feeling a bit lost.
It has really helped so much to have your insights into what might lie ahead.
Hopefully we will be starting a conversation with the parties to the process today.
Thank you again, and we’ll let you know how we get on.

Hope your discussions go well and remember to take your time, and don't get pressured into accepting anything less than zero out of pocket costs to you.

You have a legal right to a repaired or replacement engine so be prepared to push hard for your rights!

I would start by having a discussion with the Office of Fair Trading ACT - I am sure they will point you in the right direction on how to go about this process. I have used them in the past to force companies to honour their warranties and obligations under the Consumer Law and they were very helpful.

Good luck with it.

Garry

Terrible thing to happen.

Best of luck with Landrover and a new engine.

Hope things work out as best as they can.