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Thread: Fuel Pressure Challenge 2010 D4 2.7

  1. #1
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    Fuel Pressure Challenge 2010 D4 2.7

    Hi all. I’m new to this, but am desperately seeking advice. Sorry for the long-winded post.

    I purchased a 2010 D4 2.7 EU4 166000km privately in April from Gold Coast Qld to do an outback trip. Had a pre-purchase inspection and found a few things, which I had sorted. No problems. The independent who worked on it in Brisbane put around 160ks on it after the work, and had no problems.

    Driving it home in southern NSW from Qld, at Coffs Harbour on freeway with cruise control,the restricted performance warning came on, and then transmission fault as well. Turned engine off and restarted, and as I’ve read in other threads, it cleared. No problem for the rest of the trip.

    I had the vehicle looked at with a local independent LR specialist (who has a fantastic reputation), and he suspected low fuel pressure and at this stage to add a fuel cleaner and see how it goes. I drove it every day leading up to our trip with no further faults.

    End of May heading out on our adventure, 160ks into trip, the same fault presented itself. Cruising between 90kph - 110kph around 2000 – 3000rpm triggers the restricted performance, then the transmission fault. I believe the transmission fault is a cascading fault. The car came with a Gap iiD and fault code identified as P0087-00 - Fuel rail/system pressure too low.

    Towed back to the workshop. My indi suggested a sequence of repairs starting with low dollar fixes which included, new fuel filter, overlay wiring between HPFP and ECU. Checked earths. No Luck. ECU reprogram. No luck. Next decided to replace the HPFP. (at the time, I couldn’t get a new genuine LR HPFP pump and didn’t want to use a reman pump, so was able to source a new Ford Territory lion engine pump quickly, which I believe is identical). Drained the fuel tank, (incl long range auxiliary tank) and fitted another new fuel filter again. Still no Luck.

    What I noticed after all these fixes, was that once reaching the rpm and speed it would only take a few klms for the problem to show up again and more frequently. I read in thread that once these problems start that the frequency increases.

    Next we fitted a new ECU. After fitting the ECU it was great for a day or so with some freeway driving. I thought that we had fixed it, then whilst slowing down for some traffic lights, the restricted performance warning came on. Funnily no transmission fault this time and no drop in performance even though the red icon was still displayed. Fault code identified P0183-17, Fuel temperature sensor A circuit high input.

    The next day I cleared the code, and travelled around 30ks freeway driving and again the restricted performance and trans fault presented. Fault code P2290-00 Injector control pressure too low and P0183-17 Fuel temperature sensor A circuit high input.

    Drove the car back to indi, reset fault codes. Suggested trying a fuel rail pressure sensor, but unfortunately can’t buy that separately from the fuel rail. I sourced and fitted a Goss aftermarket sensor. No luck. Reset fault codes. Went for a drive and put a bit of load on a slight uphill and faulted with P2290-00 and P0183-17. Indi doesn’t feel confident with the Goss fuel pressure switch so we have ordered a new fuel rail, and we’ll just switch the switches over sometime this week.

    One thing I did notice recently is that after I reset faults by turning the engine off, when it faulted (5 times over about 20kms), previously the restricted performance exclamation light would stay on after pressing OK. This time around, the light hasn’t stayed on.

    Yesterday I plugged the Gap tool in to see what the fuel rail pressure indicated at point of faulting and it read 129990.0kPa which converts to 1299bars. This was under acceleration around 3000rpm. There was one point earlier that I saw 174650kPa, 1746.5bars, but not under heavy acceleration.

    I'm struggling to understand this all. I’ve spent so much money and time on this car so far, and still haven’t enjoyed it. I feel I’m in a rabbit hole and can’t find my way out. Very frustrating. Did I buy a dud or just unlucky with timing? The car drives very well if I keep it around 2000rpm. I’ve read threads with alternator, battery and brake light issues (haven't gone down these tracks). I’m now at my wits end.

    So here I am seeking any help/advice that may be different from the other threads, even a little, as I’ve pretty much done everything suggested in those threads. The independent LR specialist I’m using is great and helping out. Any suggestions please?

  2. #2
    BradC is offline Super Moderator
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    Woah, wall of text.

    I don't think I read in there any diagnostics on the low pressure pump. Have you checked the delivery and flow of the low pressure fuel system? When I was diagnosing my P2290-00 and P0087-00 faults I cable-tied a gauge to the windscreen wiper and drove around until it faulted to rule out insufficient fuel to the HPFP. Sounds like yours is going out under load, and that'd be the first place I'd look.

    And yes, a VDO pump for a "Lion upgrade" (EU4 2.7) is the same whether it's LR or Ford. I bought a VDO locally.

    MY08 D3 - The Antichrist - "Permagrimace". Turn the key and play the "will it get me home again" lottery.

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    I would suggest to the OP that he enlarges the text and paragraphs it.

    Did my head in after reading 2 lines, so did not read any more.
    Dave.

    I was asked " Is it ignorance or apathy?" I replied "I don't know and I don't care."


    1983 RR gone (wish I kept it)
    1996 TDI ES.
    2003 TD5 HSE
    1987 Isuzu County

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    Thanks for your advice Dave. I've adjusted text accordingly. I'm new to the Aulro and forum. Can only get better.

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    Thanks Brad for your advice. I don't think we've discussed LPFP. I'll check that out with him. I've seen it mentioned in other threads, but would expected the it had been considered.

    Re under load issue. I'm not sure, but could be. It presents itself both under load/acceleration and freeway cruising.

    Thanks

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    BradC is offline Super Moderator
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    When ours went the predominant symptom was a very mild acceleration at freeway cruise. Think cruise control on and the freeway takes a very slight upward gradient.

    I could watch it happen on the IID. The ECU would call for more fuel and command the PCV open a bit more, the pressure wouldn't increase, so it'd ask the valve to open further.. and so on. If I was watching for it and not on cruise I could get off the throttle and then stamp on the pedal which would cause the valve to close then re-open and it would un-stick. Really obvious if you graph. Check the graph here : 08 D3 TDV6 P117D-00

    When it did happen, I found I had a couple of seconds from the first "bong" to the cascade failures, so at first bong I'd turn the key off, then back on again. That'd reset the ECU before the downstream units (TCM, Park Brake, Suspension) had time to register faults.

    One run to Margaret River and back it probably happened ~90 times each way, which is when I finally bit the bullet to replace the pump. You've already replaced the HPFP with a new one, so it's not very likely it is that.
    MY08 D3 - The Antichrist - "Permagrimace". Turn the key and play the "will it get me home again" lottery.

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    Brad.

    Did you eventually solve the problem?

    I've attached my Gap Tool mapping from yesterday. I'm relatively new to all this. It's apparent that after looking at your map I need to add some more criteria i.e fuel rail temp, Volume control valve, etc. I'll have another go tomorrow.

    Looking at my map you can see where I accelerated around 561 requesting more fuel, then the fuel pressure dropped just after 564, and spiralled down from there. From 557 I was just cruising and from 559 I slowed down to allow a truck in front of me get ahead to give me space so that I could accelerate up to it.

    Brad, again thank you for taking interest in this.

    IMG_1216 (1).jpg

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    BradC is offline Super Moderator
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    G'day Morris,

    Yes, I solved the problem by replacing the HPFP. Having said that, my symptoms were very specific and I spent months diagnosing until I had a reproducible test case that definitively pointed at the PCV in the HPFP.

    In your case given you've put a brand new genuine HPFP in I'd be more inclined to look at the fuel delivery to the HPFP, but that's only because your first post didn't mention it had been examined.
    MY08 D3 - The Antichrist - "Permagrimace". Turn the key and play the "will it get me home again" lottery.

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    Well at least you had luck.

    I'm investigating the LPFP and I'll let you know how it all works out. So frustrating. It seems the only way to fix these faults is to throw parts at them, which doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, back into the rabbit hole we go.

    On parts, who have you found to be a good and reasonably price LR parts supplier?

    Thanks Brad.

  10. #10
    BradC is offline Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris View Post
    Well at least you had luck.
    Oh there was no luck involved. I spent months doing the diagnostics. If I were to charge for my time it'd have been cheaper to replace every single element of the fuel system.
    Having said that, if I had taken it to a mechanic, the first part out of the canon would have been the HPFP, so I'd have won on the first go anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morris View Post
    I'm investigating the LPFP and I'll let you know how it all works out. So frustrating. It seems the only way to fix these faults is to throw parts at them, which doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, back into the rabbit hole we go.

    On parts, who have you found to be a good and reasonably price LR parts supplier?
    If I need it *now* I call around, but if I can wait a couple of days I usually buy from LRDirect in the UK.

    With the HPFP I bought a rail pressure sensor on-line (which I didn't use). I bought a belt kit and bolts from the UK, the pump itself from United Fuel Injection locally and the high pressure pipes and block seals for the oil sep from my local indy. Bits from all over the place.

    The HPFP has a rotary vane feed pump, and provided its primed it'll suck fuel from the tank even if the low pressure pump isn't running. It'll crap out under load though and its posited that cavitation of the feed pump from insufficient supply pressure is one of the contributors to HPFP failure. I tested that as part of my diagnostics and drove around with the LPFP fuse out.

    This is why anything from the tank, through the low pressure pump, filter and high pressure pump can cause those fault codes.

    This is absolutely worth a read : DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Robbie's Guide To The Low Pressure Fuel System

    My pump is not to spec (lazy, old, worn, whatever...), but it retains positive pressure under most conditions and hasn't caused an issue.
    MY08 D3 - The Antichrist - "Permagrimace". Turn the key and play the "will it get me home again" lottery.

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