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No one ever has suggested you change the oil spec for short term climatic changes, if you lived in Norway where its cold to extremely cold 8 months of the year you'd stick to a thinner grade as opposed to someone that lives in outback Australia where cold means putting on blundstones instead of thongs with your shorts.Quote:
Originally Posted by discomatt69
In reality if you are changing oil at 10K intervals the difference between a 30 or 40 will make SFA difference.
No - you are missing the point. In your example you stick with the one spec based on where you do most of your driving. Short term usage makes no difference - we are talking about extended operation at extreme conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by discomatt69
So if you lived in the Pilbara or the Middle East, you could run a higher grade oil - particulate during summer - compared to if you lived in Northern Europe for winter where you would use the original spec oil.
This is why Christian’s advice to people to just use 5W-40 was so misleading. Those living in cold climates (like Northern Europe or Tasmania or even Melbourne) can stick with 5W-30.
Those living in the northern parts of Australia or other hot parts of the world would benefit going up to 5W-40.
The rest of us, just pick the oil that best suits your needs and stick with it. 5W-30 or 5W-40 (to the right spec) is fine for temperate climates.
Shane’s experience that the 5W-40 does see slightly less wear rates confirms it won’t harm your engine going to 5W-40, especially if you live in warm climates, but if you want to stick with 5W-30 then do so.
Brad and Shane are not doing harm to their engines using 5W-40, and likewise you would not be doing harm to your engine to stick with 5W-30.
If in doubt - always stick with LR’s recommended oil grade (but don’t blindly follow their service interval recommendations).
The other interesting point about oil grades. There are some 5W-30 oils that have viscosities at 100degC that are at the upper range for that grade and closer to being a 5W-40 oil which may be at the lower end of the grade above.
Case in point - some of the Castrol 5W-30 oils in particular are very close to being a 5W-40. They don’t quite hit the viscosity to be called 5W-40 but are very close. More like a 5W-35 (if they had an SAE oil grade between 30 and 40 - which they don’t).
So if you are running something like Castrol Edge 5W-30 you are already getting better protection at the 100-120degC temp range. Likewise, the Castrol Edge 5W-40 oil is at the bottom end of the range and so not much different to the 5W-30 alternative.
Despite the tag line “oils ain’t oils” - the difference between the Castrol Edge 5W-30 and 5W-40 is so small they are essentially the same oil but with a different label and a few additives. One is just marginally thicker to bump it up to the next SAE grade. Both will work just as well as each other and neither will give you any noticeable difference in fuel economy or engine wear.
And which oil did LR recommend……drum roll please……Castrol. OMG!!!
So they are in fact recommending a slightly thicker oil which sits nicely between the 5W-30 and 5W-40 range and so best suited to almost all applications under almost all temperature ranges. Now that folks is brilliant engineering!
Who ever claimed LR engineers don’t know what they are doing is dumbass in my opinion……[emoji38]
I had a little bit more of an indepth look at oil wear rates from my sample history. I've focused on just a handful of elements:
Iron - Typically the most common wear metal, from cylinder liners, valve guides, rocker arms, crankshaft, camshaft, wrist pins etc..
Copper - Typical element in bearings
Lead - Typical element in bearings
Chromium - Piston Rings, cylinder liners, exhaust valves.
Silicon & Aluminum - combined are typically related to dirt contamination. Separately they can be contaminates
Tin and zinc can be an alloy in bearings, however historic data shows tin practically nothing and zinc is a major additive in oils so can't be used to trend wear. I havent bothered looking at those for those reasons.
Oils sampled:
Valvoline Synpower FE 5W30 - Specs: API SL, API CF, ACEA A5/B5, Jaguar Land Rover STJLR 03.5003 Approved, Ford M2C-913D Approved, Ford M2C-913C, Ford M2C-913B, Ford M2C-913A, RENAULT RN700
Valvoline Synpower 5W40 - Specs API SP, API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B3, MB 229.3, VW 501.00, VW 505.00, RENAULT RN710, RENAULT RN700.
Mobil 1 0W40 - the only full PAO sythetic I've used - specs: API SJ, API SL, API SM, API SN, ACEA A3/B3, ACEA A3/B4, Ford WSS-M2C937-A, MB229.3 approved, MB 229.5 approved, Nissan Genuine Performances, Porsche A40, VW 502 00, VW 505 00,
Valvoline Synpower C3 MST 5W40. Specs: API SN, API CF, ACEA C3, BMW LL 04, GM DEXOS 2 Approved, MB 229.31, MB 229.51, Renault RN0700, Renault RN0710, Porsche A40
So heres the results below - elements are measured in parts per million (PPM) and in order to separate them somewhat I've converted the wear to a per 10,000km rate. Interesting that mobil 1 is the only full synthetic (class IV Polyalphaolefin) in the list and defiantly the most expensive oil I've tested was on average the worst performer for wear rates overall across FE, Cu and Pb. Results might be a little unfair to the mobil 1 as it was a sample size of 1 so its at a disadvantage there. Tin probably needs a few more decimal points to seperate them but the rates are that low I dont think theres any value comparing them, they are there anyway. Summary, best iron and copper wear is from the C3 Valvoline where as the best lead wear is from the Synpower Fe 5W30, but it also had the worst copper wear. Overall I think the Synpower 5w40 has the best combined results, but your free to interpret anyway you like:
Attachment 183751
Nice one Shane. Great to bring some data to the dumbass debate…..heh heh.
Edit: you also have one outlier result (the first data point) which is also skewing the averages. Take that one out and you would be hard pressed to pick any statistically valid difference.
wooo data? facts? huh.... no no no, a youtuber has said bluh bluh... so it must be right [tonguewink]Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDB
Didnt notice that, heres that complete first result removed from the calculationsQuote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDB
Attachment 183752
….steady on - I like Shane’s YouTube videos…….🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by DazzaTD5
Oh my god - you are referring to the funny dumbass one…..[emoji849]
So the Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 is marginally better on copper but worse on lead. They almost cancel each other out.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanegtr
If I knew how to copy & paste here I'd show my last few oil analysis results, however I'll just write down a couple which may be of interest.
7265 klms: Penrite 5W30
(ppm) Fe 20, Cr 1, Ni <1, Cu 4, Sn <1, Pb <1, Al 9, Si 5, Na <1, K 7, Zn 779, Mg 182
7616 klms: Penrite HPR5 (5W40)
(ppm) Fe 20, Cr 1, Ni <1, Cu 4, Sn <1, Pb <1, Si 7, Na 2, K 2, Zn 1054, Mg 917
So, Penrite has obviously changed the additive package from 5W/30 to HPR5.
I changed to HPR5 simply 'cos the engine has done 180,000 and I consider it helps protect the bearings particularly when towing my 3.0T van and oil temp rises.
I also use Wynns oil additives after having had very good results over many years. I use their "Professional" range which is in black bottles and is only sold to workshops. I have a "contact" at Wynns and have been told that their Professional range is condoned by car manufacturers and does not affect warranty. Not sure if that's true, but at 180,000 klms doesn't apply anyway....
...... and FYI just to stir the "possum" a bit more..... have been running Penrite BMV auto oil for past 80,000 klms with excellent results.
Oh, by the way, I have had a "Cambo" tune and now giving 210Kw and 700Nm for past 30 odd thousand klms.
Desperately want his auto "tune" but Tassy is a long way from Sydney.
