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Originally Posted by Bananas
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[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananas
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster
If you can find a new one (not a refurb) for less than $2.5k now, grab it and run.
Oh right. Inflation.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
@ BradC I just read your 2018 thread documenting the troubleshooting you did on the way to replacing the HPFP in the Antichrist. I'm of the same mind - thorough diagnosis before liberal application of $$. Afterall I started this thread expecting to change transmission solenoids...Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
But then again, the P177D code that I quickly dismissed and DiscoJeffters high stakes nod to the HPFP makes me think taking a troubleshooting shortcut might be the go.
Fuel filter first though. Just because it's an easy one to tick off.
And from what I have read and watched this evening I'm wondering if the slight shuddering I feel from time to time and have put down the torque converter slipping might in fact be fuel starved ignition. It feels remarkably similar to my first little 80's petrol Suzuki Sierra (LWB UTE) when it started telling me it needed a tune and the plugs needed re gapping.
The hpfp fault drops you into into limp mode / restricted performance with F on the gear display and also drops the suspension to bump stops. The fault codes always cascade from a fuel pump code into all the rest.
Yes a new hpfp is almost unobtainable and most are reman but as far as I can tell the reman don’t replace the electronic valves which is what fails.
LR will sell you one for $4300 but try Ford Suppliers for the Territory.
Just to expand on that, because PerthDisco has it far more recently than mine. When the ECU drops into fault it stops sending "something" on the High Speed CAN Bus. This causes modules such as the "TCU" (which mine doesn't have because it has a gearbox), the suspension and the handbrake module all to start screaming they have communication issues. Unfortunately the communication issues stem from the ECU ****ting the bed because one of the valves in the HPFP has stuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by PerthDisco
I could (yeah, yeah I know, eyes on the road Brad) watch the trace and/or values for the VCV and PCV and work around the fault with judicious use of the loud pedal. Failing that, as long as I caught it at the first "Bong" I could do a rolling ignition reset (off, on again) and reset the ECU before the rest of the modules caught on (dunno if you can do that with a slushbox).
So the comms failures you see are rather indicative of an upstream failure, and the only relevant upstream is the ECU. It's a bit of a curse. 2.7 tend to lunch the odd crank and suffer HPFP failures. The 3.0 tend to lunch more cranks and intake manifolds. Anecdotal evidence would indicate it's easier to find/replace a 2.7 EU4 HPFP than it is find a serviceable 3.0L crank shaft.
Which devil do you dance with? On the other hand, I'm led to believe the 2.7 D4 pretty much never kills a donk, so maybe it's worth it.
Despite there may now be "other" diagnostic tools that purport to do what a GAP iiDTool does, I'd get one. I only say that because I spent money on several pretenders before I bought the iiD and I've not been in need of features that it doesn't offer since. Still, it's your cash.
I think it's a bit of that, and a bit of "has been obsolete now for well over 10 years so we've stopped giving a crap". They're getting harder to come by, and as my year 11 Economics teacher described they're rising up on the demand/cost curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster
Very helpful guys, thank you.
As the kids argue about easter eggs and begin depositing coloured foil all around the house...
Thinking more about this I sympathise with mechanics who need to make a call on which repair route to take. Yesterday when the Gearbox Fault occurred I had the iCarsoft plugged in watching the torque output, gear selected, transmission control module temperature (transmission oil temp is not available) and occasionally the road.
After the fault I pulled over, left the engine running with the Gearbox Fault still on the dash and did a full scan. Although the only errors on the dash were "Gearbox Fault", "Restricted Performance", the red triangle with the ! and the orange triangle with the !, the iCarsoft showed a heap of codes including things like parking brake, steering sensor and so on. I cleared all codes figuring they were from when I replaced the heater matrix a while back.
It's possible I'm now trying to retrospectively fit the symptoms to the failing HPFP suggestion and perhaps some of these codes were caused by the cascading effect described. Never the less if I rethink the symptoms in the context of a problem with the fuel supply here are some additional observations:
- I have not seen a suspension fault code, nor does the car drop to the stops after the fault;
- I am confident that all Gearbox Fault errors occurred at times when the engine was experiencing increasing load AND when I was going soft of the accelerator AND on a downward gear change. I cannot recall it happening at all when driving the car a bit more aggressively. It has only happened in S a few times but feels inevitable in D;
- I am now thinking that the occasional 'shudder' I have described is more like a rough patch or perhaps even a cylinder in a petrol engine misfiring (I once had a 2 stroke bike that was like tuning a guitar and when the carbie was poorly tuned at certain amounts of throttle the engine would run rough and become smooth out again with more throttle. My 4 cyl Suzuki would begin to miss once the contacts became severely eroded);
- Further, when the D4 is doing it's 'shudder' the tacho needle oscillates in sync with the shudder. The needle drops about 500ish RPM on each shudder and instantly recovers. Further still, the shudder is soft, not like the hard shudder of a glazed slipping clutch in a manual. Further yet, like the Gearbox Fault I have only noticed the shudder at times when the engine was experiencing increasing load AND when I was going soft of the accelerator. Shifting to S without adding more throttle instantly solves the shudder. In this circumstances shifting to S will raise the RPM by about 500 rpm.
I guess the next logical steps before committing to the HPFP are to test the LPFP and to see if I can get live reads of the fuel pressure.
I’m pretty confident I got the last brand new genuine one in Australia late last year out of Victoria via a Ford parts reseller ($2200). Everyone else had them on back order but with no resupply time known.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
All the major LR online part’s outlets stock reman. United Fuel Injection in Perth a VDO supplier stock reman.
I’d like to know how many LR have in stock as they quote them as available ($4300).
If you watch LR Time Fabian has the hpfp fault which they change for a reman which fails again exactly the same and they then replace with a brand new one. Not a job you want to do twice.
Old v New
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Good job. I'll go google crazy looking for a new one. Tons of remanufactured ones on the net but I started watching that episode of LR Time and Christian was suss on the remanufactured unit from the outset. He noticed the regulator and/or sensor had not been replaced. I haven't watched it to the end so I did not know the reman unit failed. Mmmm not good.
Seems like GAP iiD G3 and G4 will do the job for the D4. The G3 direct from GAP is AUD 820 (ex tax) with free snail mail shipping at the moment. Seems OK (unless anyone has one rolling around in the shed they'd like to part with [thumbsupbig]).
Since there seems to be a host of possible component failures to do with the fuel system perhaps a bit more info via the iiD would be smart before replacing the HPFP.