Legality of aftermarket 17" rims for D3

**rmp** · 17th October 2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by gghaggis

I'll respectfully disagree with this. Although I'm not familiar with what's required for the Vic high country, many of us here in the West run slightly oversize tyres (265/70/17 = 31.9" diameter) without any drama. Much needed on sandy tracks (of which we have a few 1000 km's of!). I've done it for 4 years, with no drivetrain/electronics/warrany issues - I've not heard of anyone who has. In my experience, the electronics cope fine with the larger diameter. I've had 32.5" tyres on for competition work and the traction control, hill descent etc worked flawlessly (much to the dismay of the local Nissan/Yota drivers).

Cheers,

Gordon

I don't think we're disagreeing, Gordon. My main point is that larger tyres aren't *required* for general offroad touring. If people want to fit them fine, but I reckon you could get a D3 around pretty much any touring track in Australia without, and I don't think you're arguing against that? My second point is that you can't really go much larger on the D3 anyway (leaving aside compliance with roadworthy which pretty much limits to stock). When I said if you want to play "large tyres" I mean 35s plus, not 32s which are these days not large at all.

As for sand I've not found any issue with the standard diameter tyres on any car I've driven on many beaches, dunes and deserts, including softroaders. Actually one exception, low-profile tyres, but that's not a diameter problem.

Re the electronics. They are not designed for 32.5" tyres but that's not to say they won't work with that diameter and I'm well aware many people run such a tyre with no compliants at all. However, the point here is a question of degree. As one example, the ABS, ESC etc work with vehicle speed which is calculated from rotations of the wheels. Non-standard diameters throw this calculation out, therefore the vehicle is travelling at a different speed than the computers think it is. As there are small variations in tyre diameter from tyre to tyre and through wear etc there would be some tolerance of course, but the difference in actual vs calculated speed has to decrease the effectiveness of the likes of ESC. I'm in no doubt about that -- but is it sufficient a decrease to be concerned about, so far outside the designed tolerances? Probably not.

Anyway each to their own, larger tyres certainly have advantages offroad and I know many people happily run them, but my point is they aren't required if you just want to go touring offroad. Of course, I have met some would say you'd really need a four-inch lift with 35" tyres for touring, and others who run 37s on their tourers -- well everyone has their own opinion (and budget)!

**rmp** · 18th October 2009, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Hooroo

Two more question though RMP in case you've already got the answers:

It's my belief that the D4 has new braking package (Oct OV4WD article). (Does this include the 2.7lt?) If so, will I need to start a whole new search if I want after market wheels?

I suspect the smallest wheels for the D4 are 18"s? Is the hub the same as the D3? (I'll keep an eye on topic 'D3/D4 after market WHEEL OPTIONS' too)

1. The D4/RRS TDV6 3.0 min diameter is 19".
2. The D4 TDV6 2.7 min diameter is 17" (no RRS 2.7)
3. The D3/RRS TDV6 2.7 min diameter is 17".
4. The D3 V8 min diameter is 18".
5. The TDV8/Supercharged models are min diameter 19".

At this rate on the D5 Land Rover will be supplying large alloy circles with black paint on the outside and calling it a tyre.

The D4 3.0 has a new brake package, not the 2.7. Basically the faster a car goes, the more effective the brakes it has, and the usual way to make brakes more effective is larger rotors and calipers, thus increasing the minimum rim diameter. The 3.0 is quicker than the 2.7, hence the difference. This is all very well if you're dealing drugs or cruising the street, or trying to set a laptime on a racetrack, but not so good out in the rough. That said some tyre companies are doing their best with the bling-sized rims, but there is only so much one can do before the laws of physics start to intervene.

**gghaggis** · 18th October 2009, 01:50 PM

Hi Robert,

No, I don't think there's any real disagreement - if you want to tour a D3 around Australia, it will easily do it on the std 235/70/17 tyre size (although I'd recommend upgrading the rubber to a decent AT).

However, I personally prefer the D3 on 265s. It rides a little smoother, the 3 ~ 4% difference in rotational speed is easily handled by the electronics (if it really bothers someone, you can actually change the base tyre size the software algorithms use, providing you have the right interface equipment). And on the more difficult tracks, the slight height increase is quite useful. For one thing, the car triggers extended profile less often. One of the weak points of the D3 is ramp-over angle, leading to damage to the fuel tank and/or compressor on these sorts of tracks. Still, I agree that no one would really call a 32" tyre 'big' these days.

On a confirmatory note, one of the dealers here is fitting a D4 2.7 with 17" rims for a few days testing (I think they come std with the 18's?), and isn't anticipating any problems as the disc/caliper size is the same as the TDV6 D3. But then who wants a D4 with a D3 diesel?

The 18" rims used on the Bowler Nemesis should fit a D4 3.0, as they're running the RRS supercharged braking system. That could make the D4 a little more acceptable for touring.

Cheers,

Gordon

**Graeme** · 18th October 2009, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by gghaggis

.....On a confirmatory note, one of the dealers here is fitting a D4 2.7 with 17" rims for a few days testing (I think they come std with the 18's?), and isn't anticipating any problems as the disc/caliper size is the same as the TDV6 D3. But then who wants a D4 with a D3 diesel?

The 18" rims used on the Bowler Nemesis should fit a D4 3.0, as they're running the RRS supercharged braking system. That could make the D4 a little more acceptable for touring.

Cheers,

Gordon

Has the dealer tried to fit D3/D4 18" on a 3.0 yet?

**CaverD3** · 18th October 2009, 04:32 PM

I think the supercharged RRS disks are smaller than the D4 ones.
Downgrading the size of disk would not make the brakes any less safe, especially if you put bembos on, but I am surre you would not be allowed to do it.

**Graeme** · 18th October 2009, 06:05 PM

Brembos are the same 360mm. D3 V8s at 350mm would be indiscernibly smaller yet fit 18" for sure if need be and there is a couple of tyre options in 18". Maybe 2.7 brakes are OK with an engineering cert, but then there's the insurance co and warranty too for a while. 18" that fit without any changes is definitely the best solution unless 17" is a must-have.
I still hold hope that D3/D4 18" will fit.

**sniegy** · 18th October 2009, 06:28 PM

Graeme, All,

The D4 with the 3.0L Diesel will NOT allow the fitment of 18" rims.
Its not the diameter of the disc u need to worry about its the new brake caliper that gets in the way. Its huge!

On the 19" rim there is only maximum 5mm between them.
The disc will alow 18's no problems...it the Caliper that wont allow it.

The 2.7 will still alow 17's i think, havent had a chance to play with this one yet, but visually it looks like the brakes are different but will still allow 17's to be fitted. Will advise when i have time to play....Many vehicle to ready for delivery......

BTW the 3.0L goes great....

**Graeme** · 18th October 2009, 07:09 PM

Geez Sneigy, you could have let me live in hope a bit longer! No good hoping to grind a mm or 2 off the calliper either with that much of a shortfall.

**gghaggis** · 19th October 2009, 09:40 AM

The Nemesiss uses 360mm discs with the Brembo calipers on the front (I think the rear is a little smaller) + the new 5Ltr supercharged motor. The 18" rims are a special edition, but not made by LR, and shod with Kumho 265/70/18 AT's or MT's. I'll see if I can get any info on them - they _might_ fit .......

Cheers,

Gordon

**CaverD3** · 19th October 2009, 12:10 PM

There is hope yet.

Thread: Legality of aftermarket 17" rims for D3

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