Murphy's Law, catastrophic failure in a very bad place

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Originally Posted by Graeme

I'm not suggesting that different settings might prevent overheating per se, only that by using a fixed setting the driver will be less insulated from, ie made more aware of, deteriorating shock operation because the valving wont be changed by the ecu trying to accomodate the decreasing damping caused by excessive heat. I've found that most drivers will feel the ride deteriorating well before they get so hot that the pressure gets high enough to blow the seals, unless an ecu keeps adjusting the valving to mask the situation.

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Okay, that makes more sense. But it relies on the driver knowing how the vehicle would normally react on that specific terrain. Otherwise they'll never pickup the fading as the shocks get hot.

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Originally Posted by Summiitt

Why can't shocks in a top end vehicle like this be able to handle any thing thrown at it...I run defenders in the bush for work and they do it, why can't my rangie do the same thing...no it's nothing to do with air suspension, the technology is there..

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I beleive what we've seen is a specific set of circumstances that are the worst possible combination for a shock. Whether or not you blow a shock in those situations can be a very fine call depending on dozens of little factors. But any shock in that situation (heavily laden vehicle, worst speed, using most of the stroke constantly) will overheat.

Whether it overheats to failure or not is almost down to luck. There is only one shock that failed on that vehicle, all four shocks had a similar experience.

Only just seen this thread, glad things are moving in the right direction for you Greg. A lot better than when I met you at Drysdale Station.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

There is a travel speed of death for shock absorbers in rough terrain where they run the hottest and fail the most.
If you go faster the cooling air takes more heat away and they run cooler. If you go slower the heat creation is less and they run cooler.
But there's a band in the middle maybe around 30km/h depending on the terrain that will keep them the hottest.

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I experienced this on the Gibb River and Kalumburu Rd where I was able to travel at between 60 & 80Kph the shocks were luke warm. Yet when I went out to Walsh Point from Mitchell Falls, a slow (Very slow in places) speed with large suspension travel I nearly left a layer of skin on the shocks they were that hot :o

Seems odd LR wouldn't/couldn't fly the replacement shocker to you. How do Land Rover UK send parts to Australia, I can't believe they use a ship for shocks. Seems I was lucky in getting four gas nitrogen shocks from the UK to WA in 5 days, no ships involved ;)

Sorry to hear of your problems Greg, however carrying spare shocks should be mandatory on those roads...

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Originally Posted by Dougal

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If you drive at the worst speeds on rough tracks then you'll overheat any shock. ...

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True, but some shocks are built better than others. Some on here have overheated bilsteins so badly that the paint cooks off, yet they keep working...

Not that they are immune from failure though:
http://www.campingaustralia.org/showthread.php't=997

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Originally Posted by kelvo

Only just seen this thread, glad things are moving in the right direction for you Greg. A lot better than when I met you at Drysdale Station.

I experienced this on the Gibb River and Kalumburu Rd where I was able to travel at between 60 & 80Kph the shocks were luke warm. Yet when I went out to Walsh Point from Mitchell Falls, a slow (Very slow in places) speed with large suspension travel I nearly left a layer of skin on the shocks they were that hot :o

Seems odd LR wouldn't/couldn't fly the replacement shocker to you. How do Land Rover UK send parts to Australia, I can't believe they use a ship for shocks. Seems I was lucky in getting four gas nitrogen shocks from the UK to WA in 5 days, no ships involved ;)

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That was you in the white D4 at Drysdale was it Kelvo?

I presume Land Rover do actually ship such things as shocks to Australia, rather than fly them. I guess if they can't fly domestically they can't fly internationally either. If you got shocks here in 5 days, it's probably because the shipper didn't declare them as dangerous goods.

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Originally Posted by GregMilner

That was you in the white D4 at Drysdale was it Kelvo?

I presume Land Rover do actually ship such things as shocks to Australia, rather than fly them. I guess if they can't fly domestically they can't fly internationally either. If you got shocks here in 5 days, it's probably because the shipper didn't declare them as dangerous goods.

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I would hate to contemplate what an adequate set of spares would be for a vehicle of this complexity, a bit more than baling twine & duct tape

I sent some questions to LRA - not particularly well thought out questions, they were done in a bit of a hurry - and got this response yesterday from their spokesman:

Q: Does LRA view the Range Rover as suitable for Australian off-road conditions?
A: Yes we do

Q: Why are 20 inch wheels the smallest that can be fitted to this model?
A: 20" wheels are fitted to the most powerful versions of the Range Rover to accommodate the larger performance brakes. The least powerful models are fitted with 19" wheels as they do not have the same brake package fitted.

Q: Should owners considering taking their vehicles to remote outback areas seek advice from LRA on driving methods prior to departure?
A: Owners should consider expert tuition from a qualified Land Rover Experience instructor which can be organised through participating dealers or other qualified 4WD instructors.

Q: Is this one of the most difficult, remote and costly recovery operations performed for a Land Rover owner in Australia?
A: We have the occasional recovery from very remote and difficult locations. We have good partners in place to ensure that we get to the most remote location in the quickest possible time.

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Originally Posted by GregMilner

That was you in the white D4 at Drysdale was it Kelvo?

I presume Land Rover do actually ship such things as shocks to Australia, rather than fly them. I guess if they can't fly domestically they can't fly internationally either. If you got shocks here in 5 days, it's probably because the shipper didn't declare them as dangerous goods.

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Nothing flash like that, a silver D2. I was wearing the Team W4 tee shirt.

The air way bill listed the package as "Car parts, shock absorbers" and came via DHL, maybe they have/use a pressurised compartment on their cargo planes for pressure sensative cargo. Or they fly below 16,000ft all the way ;)

I had a look at the IATA regulations on this and gas shocks should be able to be air transported due to teh small amount of nitrogen in them .
However it seems that the freight forwarders have made up teir own rulers to protect their backsides.
Regards Philip A

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I had a look at the IATA regulations on this and gas shocks should be able to be air transported due to teh small amount of nitrogen in them .
However it seems that the freight forwarders have made up teir own rulers to protect their backsides.
Regards Philip A

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Few realise that the measured pressure can only increase by 1 atm max. If you had 500psi at STP, then in a perfect vacuum you'd read 514.7psi.

I've had airlines make me deflate 30psi bike tyres before. While not realising the rear shock on the same bike had 300psi of nitrogen in it.:angel:

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Few realise that the measured pressure can only increase by 1 atm max. If you had 500psi at STP, then in a perfect vacuum you'd read 514.7psi.

I've had airlines make me deflate 30psi bike tyres before. While not realising the rear shock on the same bike had 300psi of nitrogen in it.:angel:

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You have to love people who don't understand physics. I am surprised they don't have to deflate the packts of nuts and chips before packing them into the galley - not to ention the champagne and beer!!!