It can be done!

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Originally Posted by Graeme

Its not necessarily illegal, indeed most likely is legal if done by an Australian bar manufacturer such as ARB or OL.

There are requirements for shape including following the body shape reasonably closely to minimise pedestrian damage, driver forward visibility, not exceeding the width including the mirrors nor 2.5m and an assertion from the bar manufacturer that its unlikely to adversely affect air-bag deployment. As long as the shape follows the body reasonably closely and the width acceptable, the bar would already comply with other pedestrian impact aspects so only the similarity or otherwise of the air-bag deployment needs to be considered. With D3/D4 and the RR made by the one manufacturer in the same era I suspect that air-bag deployment criteria could be safely assumed to be sufficiently similar. LR aren't going to give their approval so its totally up to the bar manufacturer. From what I can discover, no crash testing is done of bars fitted to vehicles so its only the assessment of the bar manufacturer as to its suitability. Its quite feasible that ARB and OL have been prepared to declare that their D3 or D4 bar complies for these RRs in general or at least on a vehicle by vehicle basis.

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That's right Greame and the air bag calculations can be done by an authorised engineer for not a lot of money. I had these done with the mods I did to my Porsche a few times over the years.

However I don't think the D3/D4 bars would suit the MY11/12 bumper and head-lights unless the bar is mounted higher to avoid huge gaps below the lights, Then the bottom of the radiators etc might be too exposed to damage, let alone the effect on the appearance.

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Originally Posted by Graeme

However I don't think the D3/D4 bars would suit the MY11/12 bumper and head-lights unless the bar is mounted higher to avoid huge gaps below the lights, Then the bottom of the radiators etc might be too exposed to damage, let alone the effect on the appearance.

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Yep, agree again. Sorry about the name dyslexia in last post too!:confused: I quite like the Rhino Products idea of a bumper but no tube work. I think if there was one I was happiest with, it would be this type of design but the one off cost would be eye bleeding.
I dunno!

I would want the tubes for roo protection even though bars spoil the appearance. The ARB bar on the pre-facelift looks quite acceptable to me but I wonder what can be done for the later ones. I don't much like the ECB on my D4 but its there for a purpose.

Transpositions and different spelling occurs often with a name that has several different versions. I have a chuckle when people want to know how I spell my name so they can give me a call when an ordered part arrives - they all sound the same!

Graeme, it would be quite possible and cost effective to make a finisher panel to fill the gap under the headlights of the later L322 - use the same ARB bar as the early model and make a panel out of fibre glass, to suit? ARB do this for many of the Jap 4x4s already.

On the legalities issue; Now we are saying that it can be assessed? I ask because the leg work done by the guys (here) in Melbourne and Perth have both reported that it must be crash tested. Now, I'm not trying to argue but why would the manufacturers by shying away? Can we dig up something in print?

Stay with me.... If we can get a ruling that it can be based on assessment and an engineer can be found for reasonable $ then let's do it. How many on here want one ? we all chip in. The option of using the same bar for all models with finisher panels makes it more cost effective.

There's also been several conversations from the L320 RRS guys. We know some of the agents are fitting D3 bars to the RRS. If we have a solution, I'd be keen to have a crack, my car has bumper damage now.

As for compatibility; The 2012 bumper and lights fit straight on to a 2002 with the only mod needed being the headlight bracket (and the headlight electrical connector). So without touching the main headlights the rest swaps over - there have been hundreds of cars converted without issue. Sensors, cameras and fog light are an easy mounting issue to sort before powder coating. We are talking about replacing the skin that the bits mount to - none of the electrical devices are going to be touched so I don't understand the concern here - I'm not taking the she'll be right, I've just looked at and spoken to several people that have done the conversions. Not to mention how many times I've had the front end off my car. Is there something (like a washer bottle) mounted inside the bumper directly benith the headlight on the 2012?

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Originally Posted by RR44TDV8

Yeah Harlie, I hear you but my point was that there is just nothing around for front and rear bar fitment for late model L322. My focus is on the 2010 onwards because I own a 2011/12 car and because whilst it is easy to say that the earlier and newer cars are technically the same and why wouldn't something fit, there's also a million little annoying reasons such as wiring, sensor placement, different bumpers, nut,bolt and screw placement, radiators, hoses, tubes, lights, securing brackets and so on that change between engines and year models. These things all have to be dealt with if the bar-work issue is to be solved and then you confront the issues of who is prepared to do without what function of the car because a hose or bracket or wire could not be re-fitted and the "She'll be right" approach was adopted.

I had a Porsche 993 Turbo that was gradually converted to a Turbo S and then back to a tarmac rally car and then back to a race car and finally back to a road/track car and each of these new identities required panel or body part changes. I always ordered genuine parts and always scoured the manuals before ordering and making the changes and every single time I found a bolt hole, wiring loom, plug or some other thing moved, changed or in the way or non-existent, even though the factory manual always told me this was not the case.

Anyway, I am just happy that someone, somewhere built and fitted a heap of good looking gear to a late model L322...........I just am!

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Originally Posted by harlie

Graeme, it would be quite possible and cost effective to make a finisher panel to fill the gap under the headlights of the later L322 - use the same ARB bar as the early model and make a panel out of fibre glass, to suit? ARB do this for many of the Jap 4x4s already.

On the legalities issue; Now we are saying that it can be assessed? I ask because the leg work done by the guys (here) in Melbourne and Perth have both reported that it must be crash tested. Now, I'm not trying to argue but why would the manufacturers by shying away? Can we dig up something in print?

Stay with me.... If we can get a ruling that it can be based on assessment and an engineer can be found for reasonable $ then let's do it. How many on here want one ? we all chip in. The option of using the same bar for all models with finisher panels makes it more cost effective.

There's also been several conversations from the L320 RRS guys. We know some of the agents are fitting D3 bars to the RRS. If we have a solution, I'd be keen to have a crack, my car has bumper damage now.

As for compatibility; The 2012 bumper and lights fit straight on to a 2002 with the only mod needed being the headlight bracket (and the headlight electrical connector). So without touching the main headlights the rest swaps over - there have been hundreds of cars converted without issue. Sensors, cameras and fog light are an easy mounting issue to sort before powder coating. We are talking about replacing the skin that the bits mount to - none of the electrical devices are going to be touched so I don't understand the concern here - I'm not taking the she'll be right, I've just looked at and spoken to several people that have done the conversions. Not to mention how many times I've had the front end off my car. Is there something (like a washer bottle) mounted inside the bumper directly benith the headlight on the 2012?

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Harlie, I agree with everything you have put in your message. I am not saying this is gospel as I have not attempted to do this particular thing with these cars but as I said, when I needed to change the front and the identity of my Porsche, I would have an engineer approve the fitment, and that did at one stage include a half cage and then a fully welded in complete cage and harnesses. Once the engineer approved it and I gave a copy of the engineering report to my insurance company, the car was insured and the modifications noted on my policy. I never had a problem with rego as the inspection and acceptance in NSW is done at "pink slip" time by the mechanic inspecting the car and issuing the pink sip. If the engineers report was attached to the inspection report, car rego'd and no problems.

So my suggestion is one based purely on insurance criteria, ie: getting the insurance to pay out if you have an accident with the bar work fitted. If the bar meets the registration authorities specifications for bull bar fitment, then what issue is there to be had by the registration authority?

Now, if you are a commercial enterprise making a profit from a product designed and built by you, then you would need to offer blanket approval and I believe this is called "type approval". This would require whatever testing and approval processes were required by the authority that has charge over the product you produce. In respect to bull bars...the testing is not so much a test of the bull bar but rather a test to prove that it's use does not inhibit or detract from the safety systems built into the vehicle by the manufacturer. This can require crash testing if engineering modelling data is not available but the likes of ARB and so on would have gigabytes of engineering modelling to show crumple rates and stress points and designed deformation capabilities. They would only be crash testing completely new materials, designs or bars to be fitted to uniquely designed vehicles.

Whilst I am not suggesting that the computer modelling data is available to every engineer, certainly the stress characteristics and material behaviour information would be available. This would not work for getting "type approval" for all of us, as the concept of a specifying engineer is to work with people producing "one-off's". What would benefit all of us is to use the same engineer to report on our bars that should be all the same.

**Disclaimer**
This is my understanding of the registration requirements here in NSW and what can be done by working with an approved specifying engineer - dont flame me!:soapbox:

Rgds
Grant

Have a read of this;
Attachment 94765

Perhaps it has to be done on a vehicle by vehicle basis.

See the table in section 3.1 on page 5.

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Originally Posted by harlie

it would be quite possible and cost effective to make a finisher panel to fill the gap under the headlights of the later L322 - use the same ARB bar as the early model and make a panel out of fibre glass, to suit?

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I had thought that the 11/12 headlights were effectively closer to the bonnet than earlier ones but closer comparisons reveals that they are not. I've lined-up pictures of the fitted D3/D4 bar with an 11/12 from the same angle and now think it will look OK. Indeed the lenses of the bi-xenon lights don't reach as high as the earlier ones so having the top of the bar at the same height would not present a problem for the lights. I must say that I'm not a fan of the standard deep panel under the 11/12 lights so a nice finisher might be an improvement. With the mud-guard cut-off looking to be at the same point as earlier vehicles its appropriate to have the same on the 11/12.

I don't have my 11/12 yet but will be wanting a bar very quickly once I do, for which I've set a time-frame of about 2 more months to find one with an e-diff before settling for one with an open diff.

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Originally Posted by Graeme

Have a read of this;
Attachment 94765

Perhaps it has to be done on a vehicle by vehicle basis.

See the table in section 3.1 on page 5.

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Complying

The bull bar manufacturer provides a statement that the bull bar complies with AS 4876.1.

The bull bar manufacturer has assessed the effect of the bull bar on the intended vehicle's compliance with the relevant ADRs, and can confirm ongoing compliance with the ADRs once the bull bar is fitted.

The bull bar manufacturer identifies the vehicle model for which it has been designed to be fitted

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On reading this, I really can't see why ARB haven't fitted bar for us. They already have ticked point one. It is easy to tick point three - and two requires their engineer to sit down and look at the front of the L322? What are we missing?

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Originally Posted by harlie

On reading this, I really can't see why ARB haven't fitted bar for us. They already have ticked point one. It is easy to tick point three - and two requires their engineer to sit down and look at the front of the L322? What are we missing?

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