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Thread: Penrite 5W 40

  1. #1
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    Penrite 5W 40

    G`day ,

    on the Penrite product selector the suggestion is to use semi synthetic for a RR L322 TD6 2004 for the BMW X5 TD6 2004 the suggestion is Full Synthetic .

    Ours uses Penrite in the Transmission now and was looking at putting it in the engine as well but i dislike finding things like this on sites that are to inform and it will depend on their reply as to use .

    Has anyone come across this or know of any reason why 2 different suggestions of oil types for the same engine would be present ?
    PLR or peter r elsewhere
    BA KA MA RRC L322 TD6 R1200GS

  2. #2
    Roverlord off road spares is offline AT REST
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLR View Post
    G`day ,

    on the Penrite product selector the suggestion is to use semi synthetic for a RR L322 TD6 2004 for the BMW X5 TD6 2004 the suggestion is Full Synthetic .

    Ours uses Penrite in the Transmission now and was looking at putting it in the engine as well but i dislike finding things like this on sites that are to inform and it will depend on their reply as to use .

    Has anyone come across this or know of any reason why 2 different suggestions of oil types for the same engine would be present ?
    Might be best writing to penrite and asking them why? in my last oil change I used the semi HPR DIESEL 5 SAE 5W-40


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    Diesel 5 meets BMW LL-01 spec.

    What matters is;

    a) does the oil meet the required specification or have manufacturer approval ?

    Consumers get hung up on base oils due to clever marketing from a long time ago (when these things did make a difference)
    Ultimately it's the additive package that makes an oil, you can have an exceptional fully formulated oil with predominantly mineral base oils that totally outperforms a fully synthetic oil, and FWIW most 'full synthetic' oils these days actually use a predominance of (extremely effective) Group III base oils that once were considered only semi-synthetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roverlord off road spares View Post
    Might be best writing to penrite and asking them why? in my last oil change I used the semi HPR DIESEL 5 SAE 5W-40

    I did message them last night , they also replied when i was asleep and the oil you are using is the one they recommend "ACEA B3 " ( what matters he says ) your oil is their semi syn , they have a 10w 40 semi and a 10w 40 full syn that can be used but the one you have is the recommendation .

    They recommend HRP 5 SAE 5W 40 Full Syn for the BMW X5 TD6 ACEA B4 and can be used B5

    He wrote , ( in context ) that he has seen no mention of BMW involvement nor is there a reference to the use of semi or full syn oil in this type engine .

    He said the spec they use are what Land Rover give when using the BMW engine in their product .

    So what i take from it is that Land Rover and BMW give different oil specs for the same or very similar engine .
    PLR or peter r elsewhere
    BA KA MA RRC L322 TD6 R1200GS

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick130 View Post
    Diesel 5 meets BMW LL-01 spec.

    What matters is;

    a) does the oil meet the required specification or have manufacturer approval ?

    Consumers get hung up on base oils due to clever marketing from a long time ago (when these things did make a difference)
    Ultimately it's the additive package that makes an oil, you can have an exceptional fully formulated oil with predominantly mineral base oils that totally outperforms a fully synthetic oil, and FWIW most 'full synthetic' oils these days actually use a predominance of (extremely effective) Group III base oils that once were considered only semi-synthetic.

    Penrite in their return message say the oil they recommend the one Mario is using has no reference to BMW that they have .

    ( rhetorical i guess ) Yes , the oil does meet the requirements and approval .

    Nulon full syn is what is in it at present and this meets both standards according to the label on the container of both the Penrite oil types they recommend for both the Land Rover and BMW TD6 ?

    The reason i lean to full syn is that in my reading/learning of aluminium alloys and temp related softness it was stated many times that full syn has a higher breakdown temp and if this is the case ? There is not a lot of price difference between semi and full syn oils .

    I recognise as with your question the quality and approval as being needed for normal running purposes .

    Is it a fallacy the full syn oil will not break down at a higher temp than semi syn ?

    If an engine overheated to excess would it have a better chance of revival/survival if it used full syn oil rather than semi syn ?
    PLR or peter r elsewhere
    BA KA MA RRC L322 TD6 R1200GS

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    If your engine has gotten that hot that the oil has coked in the head you have bigger fish to fry.

    The detergent/dispersant package determines how the oil handles soot and carbon, but yes, ultimately the ability to resist oxidation and heat would go like this.
    Group I mineral oil, Group II mineral oil, Group II+ mineral oil, Group III syn, (severely hydrocracked hydrocarbon, and there are better grades of Group III oils too, Shell's being on e of the best, and Penrite use a Korean sourced Group III which is the equal of Shell's) Group IV, Polyalphaolefins (PAO), Group V, dibasic esters, Alkylated Napthalenes, Polyolesters (POE)

    Mixing synthetic base stocks with Group II oils dramatically improves their oxidation stability, somewhat approaching a full syn in performance.

    Personally I'll take an oil with 'better' specs over 'better' base oils any day. Part of this reasoning is that often the oil with better base oils has a 'weaker' additive package to meet a price point. The blender relies on the base oils to make up for a short fall in additive strength. Some blenders though are known to go a little further with their additive packages and take an 'everything plus the kitchen sink' approach.

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    is there a list of good to bad list of additives/specs?

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    Rick
    I am seeing a few diesel repair specialists now recommending thicker oils in warmer areas, than what the makers advise; their reasoning is, the lighter oils are adding significant fumes, that are causing EGR and inlet manifold "gunk" build up.

    Do I need a Catch can on my New Diesel? - YouTube

    Wrong Oils... Why? - YouTube

    What are your thoughts on this ?

    If you can advise ! which oils have the highest Spec's for the TdV8 & Td6 ?

    Laurie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eevo View Post
    is there a list of good to bad list of additives/specs?
    As far as I know it isn't a case of good to bad, it's a process of mix and match with most being dual purpose and they react synergistically. Eg calcium sulfonate metallic ash is a dual purpose detergent and anti-wear additive and increases the alkalinity reserve. (TBN)
    One thing is that the old metallic ash additives while very good result in carbon build up in chambers, etc.

    It's advanced chemistry waaaay beyond me.
    Most all blenders buy the additive package from additive suppliers like Lubrizol and RT Vanderbuilt (independents) or Infineum (partnership between ExxonMobil and Shell) FWIW I believe Penrite buy most all their additives from Lubrizol. They had a pretty tight relationship.
    The blender adds x% of xyz additive package to a blend of basestocks that will give a finished oil that should meet abc123 specifications. The blender may then tailor it to suit.

    One thing to be aware of is that a licensed oil is submitted and tested to prove it meets/exceeds a certain manufacturers specification, a meets a specification is an oil that the blender attests meets a spec but hasn't been submitted and tested by the manufacturer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick130 View Post
    As far as I know it isn't a case of good to bad, it's a process of mix and match with most being dual purpose and they react synergistically. Eg calcium sulfonate metallic ash is a dual purpose detergent and anti-wear additive and increases the alkalinity reserve. (TBN)
    One thing is that the old metallic ash additives while very good result in carbon build up in chambers, etc.

    It's advanced chemistry waaaay beyond me.
    Most all blenders buy the additive package from additive suppliers like Lubrizol and RT Vanderbuilt (independents) or Infineum (partnership between ExxonMobil and Shell) FWIW I believe Penrite buy most all their additives from Lubrizol. They had a pretty tight relationship.
    The blender adds x% of xyz additive package to a blend of basestocks that will give a finished oil that should meet abc123 specifications. The blender may then tailor it to suit.

    One thing to be aware of is that a licensed oil is submitted and tested to prove it meets/exceeds a certain manufacturers specification, a meets a specification is an oil that the blender attests meets a spec but hasn't been submitted and tested by the manufacturer.

    so is there a list somewhere of engines and what oil specification they want... independent of the oil providers?

    ie, td5 needs spec abc
    tdv6 needs spec def
    bla bla needs spec ghi

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