Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

If you look at what every other manufacturer is currently offering in the 4x4 segment really only the 200 series and at a stretch the Y62 are big mostly boxy vehicles, even the ute based Everest/MXU/Fortuner/Paj sport/challenger etc have gone to a predominantly road focused shape at the expense of the utilitarian box shape we all love and makes for a better cargo/camper/tourer setup.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

Changing tyre size to a larger diameter on a defender is a luxury that disco 4 and 5 do not have.
Its not about bush bashing but rather how well a vehicle is suited to its particular environment and there are some basics that will always make for a better offroader:
-Smaller/narrower wheel track
-Large tyre with decent side wall
-Body panels which dont bulge past the wheels
-live axles

Love comfort, appreciate safety and nothing puts a bigger smile on my fave than power however in my opinion a true offroader thats going to get used for purpose needs some fundamemtals that you just cant get away from.

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The D1 and D2 had these attributes and that is why they were and still are so popular But since the D3 came out all this changed.
Yes the D3, D4 and even the D5 are all Great cars But they are a luxury SUV and are not a purpose built 4WD tourer like the Defender, Nissan and Toyota offerings are.
The Defender has always been a true off roader that filled the gap between the luxury Discoveries in the Landrover range and to change the basic configuration of it will alienate the Defender/Series crew and they will buy a different brand.
I recently looked at buying a D4 or Defender because I needed a good tough No nonsense 4WD to tow a 2.5t caravan on and off road with ease and to be able to carry at least 500kg as well as the van.
The D4 didn't meet these requirements and the Defenders were just too expensive so I bought a 79 Series Toyota instead.

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Originally Posted by weeds

Yep....when Daniel works out how to fit a Poptop

Although I’m not big on having a large amount of money tied up in a car.....

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Has he said he will? Otherwise I can’t see that happening, difficult roof structure. Would have to be very high and there would be limited room in the back for kitchens, etc. ...more likely a G Professional for similar money. Both would be $100k + tied up in a vehicle. Defender with pop top for half that still looks good to me.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

The D1 and D2 had these attributes and that is why they were and still are so popular But since the D3 came out all this changed.
Yes the D3, D4 and even the D5 are all Great cars But they are a luxury SUV and are not a purpose built 4WD tourer like the Defender, Nissan and Toyota offerings are.
The Defender has always been a true off roader that filled the gap between the luxury Discoveries in the Landrover range and to change the basic configuration of it will alienate the Defender/Series crew and they will buy a different brand.
I recently looked at buying a D4 or Defender because I needed a good tough No nonsense 4WD to tow a 2.5t caravan on and off road with ease and to be able to carry at least 500kg as well as the van.
The D4 didn't meet these requirements and the Defenders were just too expensive so I bought a 79 Series Toyota instead.

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All interesting and very valid points, though I’d be surprised if a 79 series were less expensive than a Defender? Around the same price these days IME. But the Toyota with bigger engine would be much better for towing than a Defender.

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Originally Posted by loanrangie

If you look at what every other manufacturer is currently offering in the 4x4 segment really only the 200 series and at a stretch the Y62 are big mostly boxy vehicles, even the ute based Everest/MXU/Fortuner/Paj sport/challenger etc have gone to a predominantly road focused shape at the expense of the utilitarian box shape we all love and makes for a better cargo/camper/tourer setup.

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200’s and Y62’s aren’t boxy either, just big. They are fat, curved beasts with curved plastic interiors, carpets and thirsty engines. The D5 is now a curved beast too with a more economical engine choice. ...none are utilitarian box shaped vehicles.

The D4 was more box shaped, which is the main reason people are dissppointed with the D5 and waiting for the new Defender, or buying 79 series Toyota’s. If the D5 had retained the D1-4 bixiness we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

200’s and Y62’s aren’t boxy either, just big. They are fat, curved beasts with curved plastic interiors, carpets and thirsty engines. The D5 is now a curved beast too with a more economical engine choice. ...none are utilitarian box shaped vehicles.

The D4 was more box shaped, which is the main reason people are dissppointed with the D5 and waiting for the new Defender, or buying 79 series Toyota’s. If the D5 had retained the D1-4 bixiness we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

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Thats why i said big and mostly boxy which lends itself to better cargo capacity, D3/4 have a much better interior layout than either of them and hopefully the Pretender will carry on from that design.

👍 ...the gap on the market is very clear.

Just to throw something new into the discussion - I wonder if the changed shape of the D5 is so as to leave room for a new Defender that otherwise would look too much like the Discovery? If this is the case, we could expect the new Defender to have a lot in common (as far as shape goes) with the D4. I expect it will have a lot in common structurally and mechanically anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

All interesting and very valid points, though I’d be surprised if a 79 series were less expensive than a Defender? Around the same price these days IMO. But the Toyota with bigger engine would be much better for towing than a Defender.

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Toyota might be better for towing than a Defender but certainly not a D4. I bought a D4 and a 76 Toyota both brand new with the aim of using the 76 for towing a 2.4T van around Aus. I put in an Auto and a few other bits and then went away for a week in each vehicle to see which was best. This is my assessment:
1. Toyota is uncomfortable noisy and a real pain to drive.
2. It uses considerably more fuel than the D4.
3. It cost more to service than the D4 whilst I owned it (30,000 kms for both at the time)
4.Once you master the electronics of a D4 and get the proper wheels and other bits (which made it more expensive than the Toyota in the end) it is just a capable.
5. However as the cars get older I guess I would have more confidence in the Toyota in the reliability stakes.
However having said that, my son got a nice Christmas present last year and he is very happy!!

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Originally Posted by dirvine

Toyota might be better for towing than a Defender but certainly not a D4. I bought a D4 and a 76 Toyota both brand new with the aim of using the 76 for towing a 2.4T van around Aus. I put in an Auto and a few other bits and then went away for a week in each vehicle to see which was best. This is my assessment:
1. Toyota is uncomfortable noisy and a real pain to drive.
2. It uses considerably more fuel than the D4.
3. It cost more to service than the D4 whilst I owned it (30,000 kms for both at the time)
4.Once you master the electronics of a D4 and get the proper wheels and other bits (which made it more expensive than the Toyota in the end) it is just a capable.
5. However as the cars get older I guess I would have more confidence in the Toyota in the reliability stakes.
However having said that, my son got a nice Christmas present last year and he is very happy!!

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The Main reason I went with the far less comfortable 79 series option was its carrying capacity ( much more than the D4), it's reliability factor and the vast support network that Toyota has in Australia.
With the recommended service intervals on the D4's it doesn't install any confidence in me that it would be a viable long term ownership vehicle.
Just like the Defenders the 79 series utes also have a very good resale value as well.[thumbsupbig]