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Thread: Weighbridge Weight

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    Weighbridge Weight

    After weighing my ex 2013 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 and finding it too heavy to legally tow my caravan (2571kg tare with GVM of 3000kg) I have sold it and bought a new Discovery 5. I immediately weighed it prior to taking delivery to ensure that there was enough capacity for the 330kg TBW of my caravan at maximum load.

    For those interested, the kerb weight with a full tank of fuel and nothing else in the car was 2440kg with a rear axle load of 1224kg. This is for a SDV6 7 seater SE with no sun roof or other heavy extras. For a 7 seater, the GVM is 3200 and the rear axle capacity is 1900 which is significantly more than the RRV, with 3000kg and 1775kg, and allows me to legally tow as long as we don't put more than about 130kg in the rear of the car after allowing for my wife and I. The limiting criteria with a heavy TBW is the rear axle capacity. For my car, the TBW adds 1.46 x TBW to the rear axle due to the overhang. It was also the same ratio for the RRV.

    I did also look at a 5 seater, which would be slightly lighter. However, the GVM is then reduced to 3050 and the rear axle capacity is 1775, which is too low, even with a little bit less weight. In the case of the 7 seater D5, the GVM and axle capacities in the on line manual agree with the weights shown on the compliance plate and I have assumed that the same applies for the 5 seater.

    I have discovered that the weight given in the Land Rover manual does not include fuel, the standard tow bar, the third row seats in a 7 seater, any options such as sun roof (heavy) or even many standard features that are not on the most basic version of the car. For example, there is no difference in the specified weight of a 7 seater or 5 seater, S, SE or HSE, so it impossible to find an actual tare weight for Range Rovers or Discoverys. It also does not correspond well to the specifications provided on the LR web site, which are supposed to include some fuel and a 75kg driver. The only way to actually get an accurate capacity is to look at the compliance plate on the pillar near the rear of the drivers door and to weigh the car to get an accurate kerb weight.

    Below is the extract from the D5 manual under Towing, which is why we need to know the rear axle weight when towing FYI.

    "When calculating the vehicle's rear axle weight, the vehicle's payload weights must also be considered. Include the combined weights of all the rear passengers, the loadspace, roof rail, accessory equipment, and the trailer nose weight. The combined weights must never exceed the GVW or the maximum weights for the front and rear axles."

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    alien's Avatar
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    Have you been able to weigh it again with the van attaached?
    in my case(Defender with Tvan) ball weight is &130kg but placed almost 260kg on the rear axle as the fulcrum effect raised the front slightly, I’ve since upgraded the suspension so need to re check what’s changed.
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    At max load the TBW is 330kg as weighed. This applies 330 * 1.46 = 482kg to the rear axle. Hence the reason why rear axle capacity is critical when towing. Add the weight of 50% of two passengers and we have 570 on the rear axle, which pushes the total to 1794kg, with the car empty. The 7 seater has 1900kg capacity. This is why rear axle capacity is critical and extra weight, such as dual batteries, drawers etc, is your enemy. We can easily live with that since we keep everything in the caravan while towing. I carry 4 x 10l jerries in the caravan front tool box when remote. This location on my caravan adds the same weight to the rear axle as storing them in the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobD View Post
    I carry 4 x 10l jerries in the caravan front tool box when remote. This location on my caravan adds the same weight to the rear axle as storing them in the car.
    Might be the same weight Bob but I reckon the dynamics would be a lot different, wouldn't they?
    'sit bonum tempora volvunt'


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    Quote Originally Posted by BobD View Post
    After weighing my ex 2013 Range Rover Vogue TDV6 and finding it too heavy to legally tow my caravan (2571kg tare with GVM of 3000kg) I have sold it and bought a new Discovery 5. I immediately weighed it prior to taking delivery to ensure that there was enough capacity for the 330kg TBW of my caravan at maximum load.

    For those interested, the kerb weight with a full tank of fuel and nothing else in the car was 2440kg with a rear axle load of 1224kg. This is for a SDV6 7 seater SE with no sun roof or other heavy extras. For a 7 seater, the GVM is 3200 and the rear axle capacity is 1900 which is significantly more than the RRV, with 3000kg and 1775kg, and allows me to legally tow as long as we don't put more than about 130kg in the rear of the car after allowing for my wife and I. The limiting criteria with a heavy TBW is the rear axle capacity. For my car, the TBW adds 1.46 x TBW to the rear axle due to the overhang. It was also the same ratio for the RRV.

    I did also look at a 5 seater, which would be slightly lighter. However, the GVM is then reduced to 3050 and the rear axle capacity is 1775, which is too low, even with a little bit less weight. In the case of the 7 seater D5, the GVM and axle capacities in the on line manual agree with the weights shown on the compliance plate and I have assumed that the same applies for the 5 seater.

    I have discovered that the weight given in the Land Rover manual does not include fuel, the standard tow bar, the third row seats in a 7 seater, any options such as sun roof (heavy) or even many standard features that are not on the most basic version of the car. For example, there is no difference in the specified weight of a 7 seater or 5 seater, S, SE or HSE, so it impossible to find an actual tare weight for Range Rovers or Discoverys. It also does not correspond well to the specifications provided on the LR web site, which are supposed to include some fuel and a 75kg driver. The only way to actually get an accurate capacity is to look at the compliance plate on the pillar near the rear of the drivers door and to weigh the car to get an accurate kerb weight.

    Below is the extract from the D5 manual under Towing, which is why we need to know the rear axle weight when towing FYI.

    "When calculating the vehicle's rear axle weight, the vehicle's payload weights must also be considered. Include the combined weights of all the rear passengers, the loadspace, roof rail, accessory equipment, and the trailer nose weight. The combined weights must never exceed the GVW or the maximum weights for the front and rear axles."

    Hi Bob. I note that your quoted TBW is even higher than 10% of the van weight and am wondering why?

    By way of comparison, I tow almost 3.5T with my D4 but with a chosen TBW of about 180. This is my preference after considerable testing, and roughly equates to the 5% used in some other countries.
    MY16 D4 TDV6 - with a little Cambo magic for towing "The Brick"
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    SADLY SOLD MY04 D2a TD5 auto Classic and MY10 D4 2.7 both with lots of goodies

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobD View Post
    I have discovered that the weight given in the Land Rover manual does not include fuel
    That surprises me.

    LR's website for the D5 says:

    Unladen weight (EU) (kg) - Includes a 75kg driver, full fluids and 90% fuel 2,184kg
    The Owner's Handbook for my L322 and P38A both specify the vehicle weight at kerb weight, i.e., full fuel tank and a 75kg driver.

    EEC kerb weight = unladen weight + full fuel tank + 75 kg driver.
    As noted above why is your TBW well in excess of 10% of the van weight?

    Surprisingly, the LR website shows the D5 can have a 350kg coupling weight. That's much higher than the L322.

    For example, my L322 handbook states:

    Maximum tow hitch load (Nose weight)
    If the vehicle is loaded to the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), the nose weight is limited to 150 kg. If a greater nose weight is necessary (up to 250 kg maximum), vehicle loading should be adjusted to ensure the GVW and rear axle weights are not exceeded - see the vehicle/trailer/tow hitch chart in ‘Technical Data’.
    Ron B.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavinwibrow View Post
    Hi Bob. I note that your quoted TBW is even higher than 10% of the van weight and am wondering why?

    By way of comparison, I tow almost 3.5T with my D4 but with a chosen TBW of about 180. This is my preference after considerable testing, and roughly equates to the 5% used in some other countries.
    I don't know where you got the idea that my TBW is higher than 10%. I think you misread my statement that the RRV had a tare of 2571kg and a GVM of 3000kg. The caravan has a tare of 2450 and an ATM of 3500, which I didn't show in my initial post. At the fully loaded weight that I use with 300l of water and 40l of fuel the van weighs 3300 and the TBW is 330, so 10%. The tare TBW is 160kg. Almost everything that gets added during loading of the caravan is forward of the axle group, apart from 200l of water that is central over the axles, so even though I have carefully placed heavy stuff near the axles the TBW gets to 10% under the loading that I put in it.

    You can have a look at al of the current land rover manuals on line and you will see that they don't say what the weight includes. It just says "weight" and for my D5 it says weight is 2336kg. The actual weight as delivered to me with a full tank of fuel and no passengers is 2440kg. The 2336 weight applies for every model of SDV6, including 5 and 7 seaters so there is no way it can be accurate.

    My 2013 TDV6 RRV has a specified "weight" in the manual of 2160. My actual weight of the RRV including sun roof, full tank of fuel alloy side steps and about 40kg of duel battery is 2571kg. If you look at the specs on the LR web site which says that the weight includes some fuel and a 75kg driver, you will see that it also does not relate well to the weights in the manual, even if you remove the driver and fuel. This is particularly so for L405 Range Rovers. I got a hell of a shock when I weighed the RRV as I thought I had heaps of payload capacity, given the 2160 "weight" in the manual.

    By the way, the L405 manual allows 350kg TBW in Australia, although the sticker on the standard tow bar states that the maximum is 200kg. That would take some explaining if you got weighed on the side of the road I think.

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    Like every other brand, towing at near GCM is fraught with issues of legality.

    Reality is anyone wanting to tow towards max should really be looking at something like a 1500 Dodge Ram or similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by p38arover View Post

    That surprises me.
    As I said in my earlier post, the specs on the LR web site are at best incredibly misleading. 2184 with driver and fuel on the web site, 2336 with no specification of what the weight includes in the manual and 2440 actual for a 7 seater SDV6 SE in real life.

    Edit: I just looked up the web site and the kerb weight for a SDV6 with 90% fuel and 75kg driver is specified as 2311, not 2184 as ap38arover posted. The weight p28arover posted is for the SD4. The GVM is also supposed to be 3050. In fact, GVM for a 7 seater is 3200 and the actual weight of an SDV6 SE 7 seater is 2440.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombie View Post
    Like every other brand, towing at near GCM is fraught with issues of legality.

    Reality is anyone wanting to tow towards max should really be looking at something like a 1500 Dodge Ram or similar.
    Doing the same exercise with a RAM 1500 is not too good either. The rear axle capacity is only 1770kg with a kerb weight of 2715 in the brochure and a GCM of 6692 for the V6. If you try to do the same exercise it is just as close to the legal limit as a wagon. I did that before settling on the D5 as the best compromise, as long as it is a 7 seater. The 7 seat Range Rover Sport is also a good option with the same capacities as the D5.

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