...or this

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

I'm tipping not much more than now.

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Past history would support that, but there seems to be more push into battery development than there has been historically. I keep hearing about all the advances in batteries, but in the 22 years I have been on stand alone solar, when it comes down to actually buying batteries, the answer is that in that time batteries have neither improved markedly nor got any cheaper. Of course, house batteries do not have the same requirements as vehicle ones do, and in particular the energy density available has improved markedly in the last ten years. But the other key figure for EV batteries of cost per kwh over the battery life has not budged significantly - if anything, it is higher.

So I'm inclined to agree, but would not be all that surprised if there were real improvements in the next few years.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Past history would support that, but there seems to be more push into battery development than there has been historically. I keep hearing about all the advances in batteries, but in the 22 years I have been on stand alone solar, when it comes down to actually buying batteries, the answer is that in that time batteries have neither improved markedly nor got any cheaper. Of course, house batteries do not have the same requirements as vehicle ones do, and in particular the energy density available has improved markedly in the last ten years. But the other key figure for EV batteries of cost per kwh over the battery life has not budged significantly - if anything, it is higher.

So I'm inclined to agree, but would not be all that surprised if there were real improvements in the next few years.

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I was reading a paper on batteries a few weeks ago. It was noting the massive improvements of energy density from ten-twenty years ago but also noted the improvements in recent years have plateaued. They were predicting there was not much more improvement to be got out of the technology.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

I would have thought someone like yourself would have understood the requiments for charging a battery bank that is capable of moving a large electric vehicle several hundred KM. A couple of hours at a campsite with a 2KVA Honda sure won't cut it, but I suspect you knew that's already. ;)

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I'm sure we could spend hours cherry picking details of each others posts to snipe at but the reality is that the capabilities of electric vehicles continue to climb. The exact details of range extenders or even what yoofs do with their pa's genset will be unknown until they actually happen.

As for battery technology, the payoff for novel high capacity high reliability high volume low weight low cost batteries would be massive. It remains to be seen who unseats the current design of Lithium rechargeable first. I've read quite a few engineering reports of different architectures, different chemistries and nano manufacturing techniques and believe that change is coming. No doubt some will be red herrings but to believe that battery technology has reached a peak is amusing. A temporary plateau in some applications, perhaps.

Over the last couple of decades, there have been major improvements in batteries where the critical factor is size and mass per kw/hr. Or perhaps this be w/hr, because this new battery technology remains too costly for most applications where large amounts of power are used, and even in those applications where battery cost is virtually irrelevant, such as in mobile phones, there remain serious reliability issues.

Despite this, battery technology has advanced to the stage where EVs are actually realistic technology for many uses. The problem remains mainly one of cost of batteries, and the problem here is that for the type of battery being used today, made up of small individual cells, expecting economies of scale to make a major cost reduction seems to me to be a bit of a mirage. While some drop in costs can be expected, it needs to be realised that these cells are already being made in very large numbers, so that the major benefits of scale have already achieved.

While I have been wanting to own an EV for the last sixty years at least, I now have little hope that it will be possible to get one that either meets my needs or I can afford in the time left to me. The key, of course is the batteries, and here I have to point to my experience with home batteries in the last couple of decades. Recently having to rebuild the system due to a lightning strike, it was impossible to justify to the insurer replacing the lead acid batteries with anything else - new technology is simply not cost effective yet.

Found this while cruising around YouTube last night.

https://youtu.be/AdPqWv-eVIc

There is huge investment going into mass production of various types of lithium batteries which should lower costs and could be a game changer.

If the Lithium can be found to fuel the production. Is There Enough Lithium to Maintain the Growth of the Lithium-Ion Battery Market? | Greentech Media

Firstly that Bollinger thing is HORRIBLE !

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

There is huge investment going into mass production of various types of lithium batteries which should lower costs and could be a game changer.

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Which may mean that it's cheaper and more available BUT those things don't have any bearing on range and efficiency.

So I'm not sure how that could be described as a "game changer".

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Originally Posted by TB

I LOL'd to see your comment about the ugliness of the electric truck coming from somebody with a pic of an FC in their sig. I'm presuming a dry sense of irony on display [biggrin]

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Not sure if that was a compliment or i need to be offended [bighmmm].

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Originally Posted by loanrangie

Not sure if that was a compliment or i need to be offended [bighmmm].

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It was referring to Homestar with his Land Rover Forward Control (“FC”) monstrosity. Hopefully you can be amused rather than offended. :)