Won’t be retro...

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Originally Posted by manic

It depends how you look at it. The way I see it you have the original landrover generations , essentially series 1 - 4

There was no shared model name for the 90/110/130 (4th gen). This was not a problem until the Land Rover Discovery came out. At which point the defender model name was assigned to the 90/110/130 'series'. So 'Defender' is often referred to as the model name for all land rover 90/110/130 after series 3 without ridicule.

I have a LR90 which gets referred to as a Defender all the time! Most people switch off if you get nit picky about it.

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Yep, Landrover rebranded it numerous times, latest is defender, as you say they called it defender only to separate from disco.

We may or may not like certain years of the rebrand, however its been the same model under the make all along.

The proof is in the body shape, and the people that actually made it saying so.

Good article on it here

Land Rover - History, Trivia & Fast Facts

"AND ROVER BECOMES ITS OWN BRAND

The success of the Series Land Rover and “Rangie” prompted the transition of Land Rover from a product line to full brand in 1978 – under the stewardship of British Leyland before it was subsequently renamed the Rover Group in 1988 during a messy period in the British car industry. In 1994, an ambitious BMW purchased the Rover Group from British Aerospace – but a combination of German mismanagement and the British manufacturer’s deep-rooted issues resulted in Land Rover being sold to Ford six years later (for a then US$2.8billion) while Rover went to a consortium (for a nominal £10)."

"SOLID DEFENCE

The Series Land Rover had eventually become the Ninety and One Ten – two versions named after their wheelbases in inches (approximately) – before being badged Defender 90 and Defender 110 from 1991. Production finally ended in January 2016, 68 years after the original rolled off the same Solihull, UK, assembly line. About two million had been built, and between 65 and 70 per cent of these are estimated to still be running today."

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

We may or may not like certain years of the rebrand, however its been the same model under the make all along.

The proof is in the body shape, and the people that actually made it saying so.

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I wouldn't go that far. All 90/110/130 had the same/compatible body panels from 1980s to the very last defender. The rebrand was applied during gen 4. Series 1-3 designations should be considered model names pre 'defender' era.

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Originally Posted by manic

I wouldn't go that far. All 90/110/130 had the same/compatible body panels from 1980s to the very last defender. The rebrand was applied during gen 4. Series 1-3 designations should be considered model names pre 'defender' era.

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Edited above before i saw you posted

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

Yep, Landrover rebranded it numerous times, latest is defender, as you say they called it defender only to separate from disco.

We may or may not like certain years of the rebrand, however its been the same model under the make all along.

The proof is in the body shape, and the people that actually made it saying so.

Good article on it here

Land Rover - History, Trivia & Fast Facts

"AND ROVER BECOMES ITS OWN BRAND

The success of the Series Land Rover and “Rangie” prompted the transition of Land Rover from a product line to full brand in 1978 – under the stewardship of British Leyland before it was subsequently renamed the Rover Group in 1988 during a messy period in the British car industry. In 1994, an ambitious BMW purchased the Rover Group from British Aerospace – but a combination of German mismanagement and the British manufacturer’s deep-rooted issues resulted in Land Rover being sold to Ford six years later (for a then US$2.8billion) while Rover went to a consortium (for a nominal £10)."

"SOLID DEFENCE

The Series Land Rover had eventually become the Ninety and One Ten – two versions named after their wheelbases in inches (approximately) – before being badged Defender 90 and Defender 110 from 1991. Production finally ended in January 2016, 68 years after the original rolled off the same Solihull, UK, assembly line. About two million had been built, and between 65 and 70 per cent of these are estimated to still be running today."

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So call the 91 onwards models defenders as much as you like, doesn’t make pre 91 units ‘defenders’ no matter what you or the dills at LR say. The bodies may have been similar over the lifetime, but there’s a lot of differences between the years. Why not call all the 68 years of production ‘Series Land Rovers’ - makes more sense IMO than calling them all defenders.

At at the end of the day, call them what you like, those that know will know who is right and who is wrong. You’ll look like a bit of a twit around the campfire talking about your 1964 ‘Defender’ IMO... 😉

The original Landrover was a model name for the Rover company, becoming 'short' and 'long' after 1953. Variants multiplied from then on, but they were all considered variants of the basic Landrover, even when the 101 was added, although the Series designation was added in 1958. But the Rangerover was added as a new model by Rover in 1970.

By 1989, after Leyland had substantially devalued the Rover name, and with a name wanted for the new model, which was essentially a downmarket Rangerover, the company decided to change to using Landrover as a Brand name and rather than a model, with three 'marques' - Rangerover, and the new Discovery, and the existing 90/110 renamed as Defenders.

Usage of model designations by the company has been inconsistent ever since 1948 - for example, Series I was not a designation until after Series 2 was introduced, and changes during Series 2a production were greater than either the change from Series 2 to 2a or 2a to 3.

The vehicle shape, remained the same from the introduction of Series 2 in 1958 to the end of Defender production, with many of the panels interchangeable, even if not the same - although notably, axle position relative to the body changed more than the wheelbase did when they went to coils. You can fit doors from 1958 to the last Defender - or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by ozscott

They are a James Bond DB hub used for disabling tyres of passingToyotas.

Cheers

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Surely you meant 'Toyotas while passing'..... [biggrin]. A few weeks ago I pulled a Toyota out with the winch on my 87 110 (NOT 'Defender') and I assure you, it has never passed me.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

So call the 91 onwards models defenders as much as you like, doesn’t make pre 91 units ‘defenders’ no matter what you or the dills at LR say. The bodies may have been similar over the lifetime, but there’s a lot of differences between the years. Why not call all the 68 years of production ‘Series Land Rovers’ - makes more sense IMO than calling them all defenders.

At at the end of the day, call them what you like, those that know will know who is right and who is wrong. You’ll look like a bit of a twit around the campfire talking about your 1964 ‘Defender’ IMO... [emoji6]

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Its an interesting one for sure, agree it is confusing however when something is rebranded, its generally only referred to as that for numerous obvious business reasons.

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

Its an interesting one for sure, agree it is confusing however when something is rebranded, its generally only referred to as that for numerous obvious business reasons.

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Its not confusing to me , despite JLR attempting to muddy the waters.

Ive told the story before, About 8 years ago had some USA expat family members visit, they were keen to take a few "LandRovers" for a test drive as they had seen the DC100 at LA Motor Show & test drove a few LandRovers in USA . I arrived in my Defender & one said "y'all didn't tell us you had a Jeep". I nearly fell over.

Somehow wires crossed , their Idea of a LandRover was an Evoque, no idea at all ! Somehow I think JLR are making a business mistake calling the new thing a Defender , Their intended market most likely has no idea what one is.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

So call the 91 onwards models defenders as much as you like, doesn’t make pre 91 units ‘defenders’ no matter what you or the dills at LR say. The bodies may have been similar over the lifetime, but there’s a lot of differences between the years. Why not call all the 68 years of production ‘Series Land Rovers’ - makes more sense IMO than calling them all defenders.

At at the end of the day, call them what you like, those that know will know who is right and who is wrong. You’ll look like a bit of a twit around the campfire talking about your 1964 ‘Defender’ IMO... [emoji6]

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Compare a 1990 UK spec 110 with a 1991 UK spec 110 with a Defender sticker on it. There are far fewer differences between those two years than between a 1991 200tdi defender and 2016 Defender with a Ford 2.2 lump. Because of this people cannot help but to refer to most post series 3 land rovers as defenders. At least when it comes to those built in solihull . There is a different history over here in Australia with the isuzu, which earned its own name - 'County' (even though that was intended as a trim level)

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Originally Posted by goingbush

Somehow I think JLR are making a business mistake calling the new thing a Defender , Their intended market most likely has no idea what one is.

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Not a chance my friend, ton of much smarter people than you and I, they know what they are doing, even if it not what we think they should be doing.