New Defender an immediate success

Opinion is an interesting thing to be sure. I'll admit during the teasers over the last few years I poo-pooed it right off the bat for ditching the body on frame design, for designing what I thought the D5 should have been and again for using IFS and IRS instead of live axles. My comments about it were quite harsh in the 'Will be Retro' thread. But sure enough, along with all the other defender tragics out there I made sure I had the stream up in time to see it released live.

I have to say that I was actually impressed. Had to go out into the driveway after the reveal and sit in my 90 for a while and just look, feel and smell the original because I felt rather 'conflicted' for the want of a better term. I found myself thinking that I have never actually driven any Land Rover with any of the terrain response modes, nor any vehicle with airbag suspension. Because of this I cant say with authority whether the new 90 is more or less capable than my 90. Certainly some of the stats say otherwise:

- Almost double the wading depth
- 41mm more clearance (not sure if that's with the vehicle fully raised or just normal)
- 80kw and 75nm more torque from the high output turbo diesel compared to puma
- Substantial increase in safety and build quality
- Flat protected underbody

The purist in me then returns to the disappointment at reduced articulation, no 16" wheel options and lack of a manual. However the last one may not be possible for all their terrain response jiggery-pokery to work. I was also a little disappointed in their being an 'urban' pack at all. The disco should be marketed towards city folks in my opinion, but one simply does not have to purchase that pack.

It may have lost the agricultural feel, but I feel the presence is still there. Looking at it, with the RR and Discovery in the background it is far enough removed from them for me to see it as the 'means business' member of the family. To redesign an icon is one hell of a task that will divide people more than the original design ever did. So, my opinion on it has changed considerably.

Do I like it? Yes
Do I feel they did justice to the original? Yes, because the design links to the original are not cheesy like the Jeep Renegade 'Easter Eggs'; and No, because I still feel there should have been a proper hose out version with a more rugged interior.
Would I buy one? If I hadn't fallen in love with the flat-earther charms of the original defender, then Yes, I would.

So, when I come across social media posts of snippets of the launch and press photos and begin to read through the comments I find there is no middle ground. Either love or vitriolic hate of the new design is all I see, and for once I felt a little hurt that there are people out there attacking this new design. A position I never thought I would find myself as I used to be one of them. And as I ponder the situation further on the drive to work in my 90, I imagined passing one and waving just as I would for any other defender.

Opinion is an interesting thing to be sure.

Agreed.

Well.. static displays, youtube channel drivel and marketing BS..

Just like Boris, this one's going right down the toilet. Serious offroaders need not apply.

this is the new SMOV (soccer mum only vehicle)

Attachment 154107

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cjc_td5

Google says that a D4 volume behind the second seats is 1124l.
One of the New Defender videos gives 1075l behind the rear seats.
Not much difference really.

Chris

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Looking at specs,its shorter in the load area than D4,in all configurations.

In fact length in rear with second row seats up is over 200mm shorter,which is quite a bit of room.I measured mine to check.

So those with big fridges will have to do some shuffling around.My set up in the D4 won't fit the new vehicle.

Internal height is also around 150mm less than D4.

Width is similar,as is external height.

Anyway,i still think its a cracker.

FWIW,it also seems to be heavier than D5,probably built stronger.

Cant see many cup holders,anyone?

Tare of 2400kg Paul, so no lightweight

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Graekynn

Opinion is an interesting thing to be sure. I'll admit during the teasers over the last few years I poo-pooed it right off the bat for ditching the body on frame design, for designing what I thought the D5 should have been and again for using IFS and IRS instead of live axles. My comments about it were quite harsh in the 'Will be Retro' thread. But sure enough, along with all the other defender tragics out there I made sure I had the stream up in time to see it released live.

I have to say that I was actually impressed. Had to go out into the driveway after the reveal and sit in my 90 for a while and just look, feel and smell the original because I felt rather 'conflicted' for the want of a better term. I found myself thinking that I have never actually driven any Land Rover with any of the terrain response modes, nor any vehicle with airbag suspension. Because of this I cant say with authority whether the new 90 is more or less capable than my 90. Certainly some of the stats say otherwise:

- Almost double the wading depth
- 41mm more clearance (not sure if that's with the vehicle fully raised or just normal)
- 80kw and 75nm more torque from the high output turbo diesel compared to puma
- Substantial increase in safety and build quality
- Flat protected underbody

The purist in me then returns to the disappointment at reduced articulation, no 16" wheel options and lack of a manual. However the last one may not be possible for all their terrain response jiggery-pokery to work. I was also a little disappointed in their being an 'urban' pack at all. The disco should be marketed towards city folks in my opinion, but one simply does not have to purchase that pack.

It may have lost the agricultural feel, but I feel the presence is still there. Looking at it, with the RR and Discovery in the background it is far enough removed from them for me to see it as the 'means business' member of the family. To redesign an icon is one hell of a task that will divide people more than the original design ever did. So, my opinion on it has changed considerably.

Do I like it? Yes
Do I feel they did justice to the original? Yes, because the design links to the original are not cheesy like the Jeep Renegade 'Easter Eggs'; and No, because I still feel there should have been a proper hose out version with a more rugged interior.
Would I buy one? If I hadn't fallen in love with the flat-earther charms of the original defender, then Yes, I would.

So, when I come across social media posts of snippets of the launch and press photos and begin to read through the comments I find there is no middle ground. Either love or vitriolic hate of the new design is all I see, and for once I felt a little hurt that there are people out there attacking this new design. A position I never thought I would find myself as I used to be one of them. And as I ponder the situation further on the drive to work in my 90, I imagined passing one and waving just as I would for any other defender.

Opinion is an interesting thing to be sure.

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Agreed.

The thing is, most of the true, die hard, mod it and go Bush bashing folks were never going to buy it brand new from JLR. It could have been a baking tray bolted to a skateboard and powered by a coal burning Isuzu lump chiseled from solid granite and the stats for every other Land Rover would have held true- most never see so much as a dirt track until they’re 7 years old and on their third owner. JLR only make money when they sell them to their first owner, who likely won’t take them off road but “wants to one day maybe and see how comfortable it it honey?”. That’s the target market. Those are the people who pay the bills, and who take the new car hit so the rest of us can buy a capable fourby all nicely run in and out of warranty. As for price, well, the G-Wagon, which is the simple(ish) body on frame, rugged, largely unchanged Defender rival, starts at more than double the dollars. It’s a tractor priced like a high end sports car. Wranglers are cheaper, but not once you’ve spent $20k on mods, and it will always be back at the dealership getting warranty work done. Even the Ute-based 4wds, the Fortuna, Everest etc, start at $50k, and the LC200 starts at $85k. So where has JLR missed the mark on price?

Only time will tell if it lives up to its name in the field, but I’ve gotta say, a lot of the hate sounds like the same complaints every redesign gets. It’s not the same, it’s got too many dohickies, it’s too soft (really? The electrics are IP68 rated), I cant repair it with barbed wire and a sledge hammer, all without seeing any real world data. Given the effort that’s obviously gone into this I’d say it should get the benefit of the doubt.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I'd also like to know if my thongs will still slide in under the driver's seat. [smilebigeye]
Also, do the rear windows still wind down by themselves?

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And can you still open bottles of beer in the door catches? That feature alone has been a saviour on a lot of trips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patclan

And can you still open bottles of beer in the door catches? That feature alone has been a saviour on a lot of trips.

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I just hope young Michael was talking of a Qlder's favourite footwear and not underwear! [emoji50][emoji23]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patclan

And can you still open bottles of beer in the door catches? That feature alone has been a saviour on a lot of trips.

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GEEZUZ! That would have to be the most important question yet.[biggrin]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarry

Looking at specs,its shorter in the load area than D4,in all configurations.

In fact length in rear with second row seats up is over 200mm shorter,which is quite a bit of room.I measured mine to check.

So those with big fridges will have to do some shuffling around.My set up in the D4 won't fit the new vehicle.

Internal height is also around 150mm less than D4.

Width is similar,as is external height.

Anyway,i still think its a cracker.

FWIW,it also seems to be heavier than D5,probably built stronger.

Cant see many cup holders,anyone?

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The 130 with the longer body might be the answer to your length issue.